Gaining muscle, losing fat

[mohiz]

I know the forum is not really geared towards nutrition, but I'd like to ask if you have any experience on gaining muscle while losing fat.

I'm currently doing the "Onus Wunsler" program, and I feel like I won't be able to keep making progress in the squat with 5lbs increments each workout for long. I've been missing a lot of reps lately. It is my understanding that once I can't add 5lbs to the squat I should switch to advanced novice programming and then intermediate. The problem is, however, that my best squat 3x5 is still only 237lbs at a bodyweight of 170lbs (I've gained like 10lbs in just a few weeks, so I'm pretty confident I'm eating enough).

Realistically, after switching to intermediate, should I maintain my weight in the hopes that I'll gain muscle while losing fat, or should I abide to the traditional alternating bulking/cutting cycles? I'm a little chunky at 170lbs, not fat but I don't have much muscle anyway.

[Mark Rippetoe]

You're not eating enough, and you don't read this board often enough. I've just recently provided examples of typical weight gain responses to the program while discussing the circumstances involved, and 10 pounds in a few weeks is not a result of following this program correctly. Gaining muscle while losing fat is not the thrust of this board.

[JLascek]

How tall are you? Nevertheless, you don't get to have an opinion about being fat until you are an Adult Male.

[msingh]

Mark have you ever coached a novice who simply got too fat to continue starting strength and then have him lose some weight before resuming the program? Is there room for a structured break to keep bodyfat in check when doing SS? Say if someone had gone from a 32 inch waist to a 36 inch waist and finally to 44 inches, would you recommend that person halt SS? I know you would recommend dietary changes like dropping GOMAD but that's based on the assumption that linear progress would nevertheless be possible on the lower calories, which might not be the case. Would love to hear your opinion.

[Mark Rippetoe]

This has never happened to a young man actually doing the program.

[titan]

Mark have you ever coached a novice who simply got too fat to continue starting strength and then have him lose some weight before resuming the program? Is there room for a structured break to keep bodyfat in check when doing SS? Say if someone had gone from a 32 inch waist to a 36 inch waist and finally to 44 inches, would you recommend that person halt SS? I know you would recommend dietary changes like dropping GOMAD but that's based on the assumption that linear progress would nevertheless be possible on the lower calories, which might not be the case. Would love to hear your opinion.

How can this happen to anyone? Are you telling me you know someone who does SS (not just half the program, the whole fucking program), and has gone from a 32inch waist to a 44inch waist?

If so, that poor guy has the worst genetics in the world, or to quote Rip "isn't doing the fucking program" .....

[mohiz]

I'm 5'9" and my waist is 32 right now. But the thing is, I'm not a total novice, so maybe it's reasonable to assume that I won't be able to gain that much muscular mass anymore? But I'll keep doing the novice program for as long as possible, while eating as much as I can.

I would still like to hear your opinion, though, about if it's possible to get strong while maintaining whatever bodyweight one might have as an intermediate. The whole cut up, bulk up -scheme just seems stupid to me, but maybe it's the only thing that actually works to get strong...?

[Sgsolberg]

Mohiz, Could you help us to understand your concerns better? Give us your weight, height, and waist size at the belly button (not your pants size, get a tape measure). I am going to guess that you are a normal height (5'10") and that you are used to being 10% bf. This is unrealistic if you want to get strong.

If you are really concerned about staying lean, I suggest you listen to Robb Wolf's recent podcast "the paleolithic Solution" episode 1 (http://robbwolf.com/?paged=2). Start listening at about 22 mins in. Robb is all about nutrition for athletes, and this segment details methods for putting on reasonable bodyweight for a novice.

The fact of the matter is that your squat is still pretty low, and your bodyweight is limiting your power output.

[tennisgod]

This has never happened to a young man actually doing the program.

Coach, how about a old(er) man? I'm 50, 188cm, 96kg (gained 5kg this month), and have trouble putting my socks on due to my newly-found gut. Of course, my lifts are progressing nicely though (sq - 132kg, dl - 152kg) and I can see muscle now in places where I didn't have places before... but for the love of god... my gut is huge!

[Mark Rippetoe]

As I've stated many times, a young man's response to training and eating is different than an older guy's.