Sustainable thrice-weekly deadlifting

[Christopher Button]

Hi Andy,

It's with some trepidation that I post this, as I know full well what I'm getting myself into. Long story short - I am unable to squat at present, due to shoulder flexibility issues that are causing some pretty crippling upper-limb pain which I have simply been unable to fix, ongoing for several years now (tried massages, stretching etc). As a result, I have never succeeded the novice phase. I live in New Zealand, but will be visiting a seminar closer to the end of this year to get this fixed once and for all.

I won't bore you with any more details, but if we suppose as a general hypothetical, that a novice lifter with a 265x5 deadlift cannot squat for a few months, how might he approach making the deadlift his primary lift during this time - specifically, how might I productively vary the rep-and-set scheme across the week so that I at least get some leg work while steadily increasing the load?

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Best regards,

Chris

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

At 265x5 you probably have some LP left in the tank 2-3 days per week. After that you might be able to DL on a Heavy-Light-Medium schedule but you might do well to vary the type of pulls that you do, not just the load.

For instance: H- DL / Rack Pull; L - PC; M - SLDL.

Can you front squat or high bar squat?

[Christopher Button]

Thanks, Andy! Really appreciate your input. The problem I've had historically with high bars and front squats is that I'm quite kyphotic, so tend to struggle to maintain the mid-foot position at the bottom. However, I haven't given front squats enough time to be sure that it isn't something coaching would fix. More than anything, I just want to be able to low bar again. I was considering RDLs + Leg press in the interim, but just can't bring myself to resort to machines.

[cgeorg]

Or Safety Squat Bar?

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

Or Safety Squat Bar?

Also an option. Either way, he may need some coaching eyes on him to get him into a style of squatting he can progress with.

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

Thanks, Andy! Really appreciate your input. The problem I've had historically with high bars and front squats is that I'm quite kyphotic, so tend to struggle to maintain the mid-foot position at the bottom. However, I haven't given front squats enough time to be sure that it isn't something coaching would fix. More than anything, I just want to be able to low bar again. I was considering RDLs + Leg press in the interim, but just can't bring myself to resort to machines.

Machines are infinitely better than nothing at all. Don't be so dogmatic in your approach you justify sitting on your ass just because you can't follow our models to the letter. SS and PPST3 present "models" i.e. the ideal. But not everyone can do everything exactly according to the model. My gym has mainly racks and barbells, but I also have dumbbells and machines and I use them all the time for my clients - appropriately.

[brkriete]

I took a break from lifting this winter due to sickness and work stuff.

Have been back at it for about a month now but I'm dealing with a frozen shoulder that keeps me from squatting right now (have been working on stretching it and it's improving but not quite there for squats).

In the meantime I'm DLing 3x a week - my routine looks something like DL, alternate bench or press, and then stretch shoulder.

I started doing 3 sets, 5 reps at 275. I took that up to 355 where I couldn't quite complete all three sets (got something like 5,4,4). I just switched to a top set of 5 reps followed by a couple higher volume backoff sets, my last workout was 385 5x1, 315 8x2. Once that gets too hard I'll switch to 5 lb jumps and add in SGDLs or speed deadlifts. My max last fall was 475 and I've been pretty pleased by how quickly my strength is coming back - hopefully soon I'll be able to add squatting back in.

[Christopher Button]

Machines are infinitely better than nothing at all. Don't be so dogmatic in your approach you justify sitting on your ass just because you can't follow our models to the letter. SS and PPST3 present "models" i.e. the ideal. But not everyone can do everything exactly according to the model. My gym has mainly racks and barbells, but I also have dumbbells and machines and I use them all the time for my clients - appropriately.

Well, that was a much needed wake-up call. I've fallen so far into this dogmatic way of thinking that squats have basically become the center of my universe; if I can't squat, everything including my motivation to train, goes to the dogs. It's stupid, it's completely unproductive, and I get nowhere. I remember you once referred to people like this as "spreadsheet clients".

I'll implement your advice immediately, and push my deadlift as far as I can, before introducing some variations. I'll also do the "unthinkable" and start adding in some leg-machine work until I get to a seminar.

Thanks for telling me what I needed to hear.

[OZ-USF-UFGator]

I agree with Andy. I'm the opposite of most. If there is a basic program that would work as written forever I'd have no problem sticking to it. I was overly stubborn and as a result my bench was stuck at 225 for a freaking year. Ugh. All I did was add volume. No go. Finally I read andys book on strength after 40 and made 2 easy changes

1 switched to 1 on 2 off

2 added dumbbell incline on the end of non bench days. I focused on working up to 1 top set of 15 and then going 5 pounds heavier the next session

4 months later I'm doing 225 x 7 and am in spitting distance of 275 as a 1 r m ( legit in the rack with no spotter hit 251 for a triple)

My problem is that I'll likely hold on to inclined dumbbells too long after I've wring out their efficacy

I'm 45 and 196 pounds