Overtraining?

[Lupo]

Dear Mr. Rippetoe,

I got myself into some deep shit, when doing the NLP. I did not eat enough by far and I hit my head against the wall when the weights stopped going up and did not reset them for a long time. Additionally I did some heavy construction work and my first child was born. I think now I do understand how to properly execute a NLP, but my body just feels completely devastated in terms of muscles. Every time I try to lift weights again I hit a wall pretty quickly (around two weeks) followed by pretty severe muscle pain and stiffness (can’t really call it soreness). Do you have any advice about how to get back into training?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Numbers?

[Lupo]

I started NLP on 15/07/19 for the first time and went until 18/10/19 increasing my weights. I am 192cm (6.3 ft) and started around 100kg (around 220 lbs). My bodyweight right now is aroung 115kg (250 lbs). I wouldn't characterize myself as "fat" and guess that my bodyfat-percentage lies between 20 and 25%.

Between 15/07/19 and 18/10/19

Squat went from 65 to 120 kg (143 to 265 lbs)
Deadlift went from 95 to 130 kg (209 to 287 lbs)
Press went from 40 to 57,5 kg (88 to 126 lbs)
Bench Press went from 60 to 82.5 kg (132 to 182 lbs).
Power Clean: I never went beyond 60 kg (132 lbs), but I didn't really get the hang of it technically in those first months.
Chins: Never above BWx3x3 but didn't decrease, when weight increased.

I tried to eat much and drank around two glasses of milk a day for a while, but my friends and family being very sceptical of my weight gain got me to cut back on that.

After that I did a bunch of stupid shit. Most of all I spend around two months lifting weight I couldn't increase without changing anything. Around 12/21 I stopped completely. At April I started to do the odd Press with around 40kg and Deadlift with around 70kg just to do something. When I start training seriously my pecs start hurting (especially the attachment to the shoulder) and my hamstrings hurt (especially the attachment to the hip) even when I walk up hills, which basically happens twice a day, when walking my dog.

I appreciate any advice, since I am pretty desperate by now.
Thanks

I forgot my age. I was born 1990.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I tried to eat much and drank around two glasses of milk a day for a while, but my friends and family being very sceptical of my weight gain got me to cut back on that.

Sounds like you need to do the Friends and Family Program. Good luck with your training!

[Brodie Butland]

Looking at your stats, it isn’t an overtraining problem, it’s an under recovery problem. The reality is, you can’t make progress if you don’t recover. And you can’t recover if you don’t eat. Progress requires laying down new bone matrix and building new muscle and connective tissue, and that stuff is biologically expensive…that’s why it’s often easier to hit a prior PR on a new training run than to hit it the first time. So you just gotta make a choice here…is the progress worth it to you or not?

I know you’re not eating enough. Whenever someone says “I try to eat a lot,” I know it isn’t enough with 95% certainty before even asking for a food log. I know because I said the same thing to myself, then I started actually tracking my intake and realized that it wasn’t enough to sustain any kind of late novice/intermediate level training. Track your intake for three days and then be honest with yourself.

[Lupo]

I know you‘re probably beyond giving away free advice, but I thought this forum was intended to help people with stuff that is not covered in the book. I know why I failed, I know that I should have kept eating. The problem is now I‘m having trouble to train at all. You like to tell people that they are or were stupid and I am happy to take that criticism. But maybe you could also talk about how to bounce back after being stupid at some point.

Thanks for the reply anyway.

[Mark Rippetoe]

You want me to tell you to do the program? DO THE PROGRAM. But I already told you that, and you did the Friends and Family Program instead. The way to bounce back from the FAFP is to do the Starting Strength program. It's in the books. Read them, do what they say. But you'd rather I type you a personal response so you don't have to read the books.

No.

[Brodie Butland]

I know you‘re probably beyond giving away free advice, but I thought this forum was intended to help people with stuff that is not covered in the book. I know why I failed, I know that I should have kept eating. The problem is now I‘m having trouble to train at all. You like to tell people that they are or were stupid and I am happy to take that criticism. But maybe you could also talk about how to bounce back after being stupid at some point.

Thanks for the reply anyway.

You say that you restarted and keep hitting a wall in two weeks. So do this: make a list of everything you ate on your last training day and the two days before and after. Run it through a nutrition calculator, which will provide a rough estimate of your total calories, protein, carb, and fat intake. Post those four numbers for each of those five days.

You say you know that you ran yourself into the ground from not eating enough. I suspect that’s still the problem, and I also suspect Rip does too…post the numbers and prove us right or wrong.

[Lupo]

Thanks for taking the time to help. I never thought about the difference between overtraining and under-recovery, very interesting. I am trying to eat as much as necessary and get back to the barbell, but as I said, right now I don‘t feel NLP is in the cards. I guess I have some recovery catching-up to do.

I read both books very thoroughly. I read Starting Strength and listened to the audiobook. I read a clarification and your YNDTP article several times. I have a Masters Degree in Chemistry and am a licensed fitness trainer, which (looking at my stats) doesn’t say much. But I am definitely able to pick up information from print. I am sorry but this problem cannot be solved by reading your books, because it is of psychological nature. The books are great though and I am basically always reading one of them. But they alone cannot change the perverted ideal of what a strong male looks like. I and many others are not immune to the influence of Friends and family even though we know otherwise. At first one resists but after a while they start to get to you. One solution is certainly someone who consistently tells you otherwise like a coach, but right now I can‘t afford 225 bucks a month.
So to conclude: modern aesthetic ideals for males screwed me up and consistently keeps doing so. I have to get either wealthy or old to overcome this. I will certainly try to teach my son otherwise.
Thanks for your time.

[oface]

and my first child was born

Replies have (rightfully) focused on your eating, which is critically important, but to address the above quote, sleep is the other recovery mechanism. Without it, you will be miserable in and out of the gym. I’ll probably get yelled at for saying this, but when my kid was born, I stopped training. I had only just begun the NLP with no previous lifting experience in life so it’s not like I was losing years of hard work. But I decided not to fight the nature of a new kid who liked to wake up every few hours and often stay awake for long stretches in the middle of the night. Couple months passed, bebe started sleeping, and I started training again, able to get a full night’s sleep.