Have You Ever Coached Someone With MS

[Powerflifter48]

Mark have you ever had the experience of coaching anyone with MS? If so what were their biggest draw backs if any? I know MS symptoms are different for each and in 2002 I was told I might have possible MS but since have been free of any symptoms but always fear they will return.

So just wondering your comments on this particular disease if you have had any experiences with coaching someone with this.

Thanks.

Powerflifter48

[Mark Rippetoe]

I have never coached anyone with MS, but I have had them as gym members and I have coached clients with profound fine-motor paralysis. MS is coming to be understood as a chronic condition that can be managed up to a point, but I don't know where that point is. I know that training can preserve function where function might otherwise be lost. I know that training can preserve immune system function, and with a good diet, good recovery, and an emphasis on doing everything possible to stay as healthy as possible (i.e. not smoking, not getting terribly drunk to terribly often) you can give yourself the best possible chance at a life free of symptoms. Six years is a long time to be asymptomatic, I believe. How confident are you in the 2002 diagnosis?

[Paul Stagg]

PLer48:

I have been diagnosed with MS. I had optic neuritis about a year ago. That's often associated with MS. I decided to go with MRI to see if there were any other signs, and there were. I have three small lesions on my brain consistent with MS.

I didn't go with a spinal tap, because I see no reason to have someone stick a gigantic needle in my spine to tell me "maybe".

My original Neurologist wanted me to start drug therapy (Avonex) because a study showed good results (no episodes for 2 years) in people with my exact situation. After two other opinions, however, I decided that the odds of not having an episode in 2 years were pretty high, regardless of drug therapy, and the side effects didn't excite me.

So, for the past year, I have had an MRI every 3 months. So far, no change, and no additional symptoms. I'm going to 6 month MRIs now.

At the time of the optic neuritis, I was under a great deal of stress (work), was drinking every night, and more than just a beer, although I was not getting drunk most nights, I had gained some weight, had started smoking after not habiltually smoking for years, and hadn't lifted for a good 18 months.

The diagnosis woke me the fuck up. After researching the impact of healthy living for MS patients, I figure my best shot is to, well, live healthy. That's certainly a focus now.

As far as training goes, I'm training harder than I have in years, setting PRs, and preparing for a meet in December. I'm not going to set any records, but I'll probably hit Class III, and my long term goal is to total Elite as a Master (I'll be 40 in 2 years). There's no reason at all to worry about training unless you are having issues.

My docs all agree, lifting can only be a good thing. There is some concern with stress and heat for people with MS, but it is far outweighed by the benefits of getting strong and being healthy. So far it hasn't hurt me.

I also understand (anecdotaly) that there are lots of people in my position - one episode, indications of MS being there, and then virtually no impact on life... no more episodes, or episodes so minor they are not noticed or very low impact. These people never have to go on drugs. Many of them are athletic/active. Might be a connection there.

Don't get me wrong, the diagnosis scared the shit out of me. I saw a life I did not want to live while undergoing treatment for the optic neuritis (I had a fucking home health care nurse come to my house to hook me up to an IV. I was 37. Only old invalids need home health care.) I wake up every morning happy I can feel my feet. Every time my arm falls asleep, I wonder if this is it.

But I'm healther than I've been in years. I've made huge changes to how I manage time, reduce stress, and actually got more productive.

If you've gone 6 years, I'm even more encouraged. Hopefully we'll talk in another 5 or 10 years and wonder what we were worried about.

[Mark Rippetoe]

It would be very good if a lot of people read Paul's post above. See what you people can do about that.

[Powerflifter48]

Thanks Mark for the reply,

Back in 2002 I went through all the test including a spinal tap that gave me the worst headache ever but it came up clear as well as MRI of the brain etc., the only thing that made the Neuro give me a possible MS discision was the nerve damage I have with my 3rd and 6th nerve of my eyes as all other diseases I was tested for were not present otherword I was as good as perfectly healthy... he concluded that MS would be the only disease that could do such damage..

I have made sure I eat right I don't drink and I never smoked and just make sure I stay as strong as possible and going on 6 years without any other symptoms and only being left with my eyes being screwed up I feel find and enjoy lifting...but I can't help but always wonder if it is or isn't it's like it's left in the air and that sucks but deep down I feel I don't have it as it doesn't run in the family.

I guess the reason I asked is and being MS is still a mystery I'd hate to be Squatting with heavy poundages and out of the blue my legs go out from under me because some nerve damage creeped up on me but I just might be over thinking it so was just wonderning is all if you trained anyone with MS ...

Again thanks Mark

Powerflifter48

I have never coached anyone with MS, but I have had them as gym members and I have coached clients with profound fine-motor paralysis. MS is coming to be understood as a chronic condition that can be managed up to a point, but I don't know where that point is. I know that training can preserve function where function might otherwise be lost. I know that training can preserve immune system function, and with a good diet, good recovery, and an emphasis on doing everything possible to stay as healthy as possible (i.e. not smoking, not getting terribly drunk to terribly often) you can give yourself the best possible chance at a life free of symptoms. Six years is a long time to be asymptomatic, I believe. How confident are you in the 2002 diagnosis?

Paul thanks for sharing your experience it was very uplifting and inspiring..

Like you I am in the best shape ever and I believe it's due to healthy choices but I always have that naggin' thought and I'm sure you know exactly what I mean if it will ever show back up it's sorta spooky in a way...

Like if my leg falls asleep or arm or some wierd sensation in my body you can't help but wonder... that is normal no doubt about it... but this whole experience like you as well woke me up to do my body good I didn't want the medicines so I optioned to making the right choices by eating right and I know since hitting the weights I feel more like a man more attactive to the opposite sex and live most of the time without thinking about the MS only accasionally actually it's a great way to keep me humble...

Paul again thanks for sharing I appreciate your story more then you know and hope the best for you in the years ahead..

Powerflifter48

[killyouintheface]

When I found this forum through the starting strength wiki, I thought I'd be content to lurk and read the threads already posted, but after I saw this thread I had to register and post.

I have had CIDP (causing damage to the hamstring and calf in my right leg, and the quadricep and tibialis anterior in my left leg) since 2004, and I've got a possible diagnosis of MS since January of this year, when I had a brain MRI showing lesions.

I started lifting and making other changes to my diet and stuff associated with that, in addition to starting IVIG infusions once a month and taking imuran, which is an immune-system modifying drug (albeit a pretty mild one).

You won't be mid-squat and the nerves in your legs just quit. MS doesn't really work like that. Nerve damage and the lesions to the myelin sheath that cause an interruption of signal were accompanied, in my case, by really, really intense pain.

If you don't have any lesions in your brain MRI, or oligoclonal bands presenting in your cerebrospinal fluid, you may still have MS, but it's probably not at an advanced enough state for you to start noticing things like decreases in motor function or control. It would behoove you to keep an eye on things like that, though, and get with your neurologist as soon as you see a change in any of these symptoms (which I've helpfully linked you to).

Sorry this was so long. Where in East Tennessee are you? I'm in Knoxville.

Hey Mark,

While I'm here looking around, I wanted to say thanks for all the writing you've done. They've been incredibly helpful since I'm trying to do all this on my own.

I'm going to begin the program this coming Monday, but I'm currently too weak to squat properly, and my balance is poor. Is there anything, in your experience, that I can do to help myself get to a point where I can squat properly? I have function in both hamstrings and quads, but they're weak because of the nerve damage. I appreciate any advice you can give me.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I'd start the same way everybody else does: use the weight you can manage and make it increase a little every time. That weight may be just your bodyweight, but that's fine. You start and then you go up, and that's really all there is to it.

[Matt DeMinico]

I've never done weight training with folks with MS, but back in college, my fraternity's charity we supported was the MS Society, and we'd pick up some MS patients from their house on different days of the week and take them to a pool to do movement exercises with a therapist.

One thing I noticed with them is they've got a lot of muscle, and from what I understand, it's because the nervous system gets weaker and weaker with MS, and the weight training allows for two things:
1) Weight training stimulates nervous system growth in muscles
2) More muscle mass to be fired by the nerves that remain
Both of these things result in increased capability to live normal life.

[killyouintheface]

My quads aren't as weak as my hamstrings ?*evidenced by the fact that I can deadlift with pretty good form for a cripple. It seems that most of the nerve damage for me (aside from my left anterior tibialis, which doesn't work at all) is in the posterior chain, specifically in my right hamstring and calf muscles.

I guess I'll just keep going as deep as I can with air squats (which I can do to about 1/2 to 2/3 depth, depending on the day and how I'm holding my mouth at the time). I plan to give it a shot using an unloaded bar on Saturday, when it's slow in my gym and I'm not in anybody's way.

Thanks for replying, Mark; and sorry about the double-post. I'll clean one of them up after I send this one in.

[GavinL]

I'm going to begin the program this coming Monday, but I'm currently too weak to squat properly, and my balance is poor. Is there anything, in your experience, that I can do to help myself get to a point where I can squat properly? I have function in both hamstrings and quads, but they're weak because of the nerve damage. I appreciate any advice you can give me.

Do the Squat stretch to find your balance. Squat down as deep as you can and hold onto something if you need it for the balance. Eventually move your stance around a bit and get comfortable enough to maintain balance.

If you can bodyweight squat, do it. If you can do those, add weight by holding a plate or dumbbell and doing "Goblet Squats." Eventually you'll be using the bar and adding from there. Progress is progress.

If BW squats are out, try hill sprints to get strength in those legs, or just hill running. If that is too much, you can always walk hills or swim or bike to get things moving.

Progress is progress. 1 pound a week means +52 lbs to a PR a year. Not too shabby for anyone with a plateau and I'm sure you can do better than that.