Can women gain muscle mass, too?

[Vanessa]

Hi Rippetoe,

I'm a woman, 38 years old, 138 lbs, 5'6", and 21% body fat. I have _Starting Strength_ and I'm doing the Onus Wunsler beginner program, plus visiting the next town's Crossfit twice a month. I am eating even more than ever and drinking the milk! (In my case, about 2500-3000 calories and a quart of 2%.)

So far I am very happy with the program, but I feel like I am operating in a vacuum. Thank goodness for Crossfit and their videos or I would feel very freaky. I have gained 15 lbs in about a month, which seems to be mostly muscle. My jeans still fit, which is nice but not a requirement. My plan is to cut back on calories if I reach 25% fat at whatever weight.

I am getting stronger, but progress is very slow (thanks to a previous thread I know I need micro plates):
Press: 60 lbs -- up 5 lbs about every third wo on presses
BPress: 80 lbs -- similar to press
Squat: 125 lbs -- 5 lbs almost every wo on squats
DL: 175 lbs -- 10 lbs every wo on deadlifts
Clean: 80 lbs -- sometimes up 5 lbs per wo
Pull-ups: 3 kip -- no change
Hip ex: 15 with 45 lbs
GH Sit-ups: 15 with 10 lbs

Please tell me about your experience helping women get stronger. What kind of results do you see with women gaining muscle mass and strength? If I eat even more could I progress faster? Am I nuts? I am assuming that as long as my body fat % remains fairly constant while my weight goes up, I am gaining muscle mass, thus the program and the diet are still working.

Thank you, Rippetoe, for your time on this forum and the book!

[Mark Rippetoe]

I applaud your decidedly realistic grasp of the situation, unusual for a woman. A willingness to deal honestly with the facts of bodyfat and muscle earn you an award of some sort, that I'll get in the mail to you someday soon. It has been my experience that women progress exactly as men do, but at a slower rate. Adaptation is a trans-sex phenomenon, and we all progress in a linear fashion, testosterone or not. But in realizing the different rate of adaptation said hormones allow, you also realize that the small plates cannot wait even one more workout. These little jewels allow your progress to behave the same as a man's in terms of its linearity, instead of being stuck for 2-3 workouts as a matter of course. You can use 2" flat washers glued together to make up the plates you need inexpensively, so do this tomorrow.

[Vanessa]

All right! Thank you, I will get something functional going right away.

BTW, I just realized that the strength standards at ExRx come from your and Dr. Lon Kilgore's work. So, can I realistically expect to need a year of solid work get my press up to 72 pounds? That's only a pound a month. If so, I need some nanoplates! I'll start with some 1 pound ankle weights I can get locally.


Vanessa

[justinbass]

Go to your local mom and pop hardware store (Home Depot or Lowes if you don't have one) and buy washers with a 2" opening. They are much cheaper than buying light weights and do the trick for adding light weights.

[Craig B.]

Here's as good a place as any. Two days ago I got in my washers from McMaster-Carr (mcmaster.com) part #91081A046. These came in weighing between 9.8 and 10.3 oz each...was able to glue two together for perfect 1.25# plates, and two that hit dead-on at 10oz for the .625.

$18, shipped. If you live somewhere other than Seattle (where the plates are square) you can probably find them locally. Nice.

[Vanessa]

Thank you for the tips. I used some light chain I had in my garage, but I like the idea of washers, too.

It was very satisfying to increase everything by 2 pounds and complete all my reps, much better than failing near the end!

I am still hoping to beat the odds, or at least the statistics, and progress to the intermediate weights listed in the ExRx strength standards by my 39th birthday in Nov. I wasted so much time with dumbbells, but Cathe Friedrich's video workouts did convert me to a love of weightlifting. I need to lift like my hair is on fire, there is no time to lose!

Rippetoe, do you have any suggestions about my routine? Is it useful for a woman to do the Crossfit Warm-up to maximize endocrine response (as well as add more pull-ups)? I also add pull-ups in between my other work, as I can only do 2 at a time. I'd like to be able to do the CF WODs!

[Mark Rippetoe]

You didn't post your routine, except to say that you were doing Mr. Wunsler's. And I'm not sure that the CFWU produces an endocrine response by itself that compares with the effects of the whole program.

[jacob cloud]

If you live somewhere other than Seattle (where the plates are square) you can probably find them locally. Nice.

Wait. Do what?

[Vanessa]

I'm finally back with a follow-up. I've been re-reading Starting Strength and SS Wiki -- apparently I need to read Practical Programming right away. I've found the answers to my personal questions about my routine. (Follow the program.)

I was very frustrated about my lack of progress, but this information was very helpful, and the programming section of SS has something very similar (emphasis is mine):
Mark Rippetoe, Practical Programming, Pg. 122

For young males that weigh between 150-200 lbs., deadlifts can move up 15-20 lbs. per workout, squats 10-15 lbs., with continued steady progress for 3-4 weeks before slowing down to half that rate. Bench presses, presses, and cleans can move up 5-10 lbs. per workout, with progress on these exercises slowing down to 2.5-5 lbs. per workout after only 2-3 weeks. Young women make progress on the squat and the deadlift at about the same rate, adjusted for bodyweight, but much slower on the press, the bench press, cleans, and assistance exercises.


Starting Strength is very useful and fascinating with inspiring pictures of strong women, but sometimes you use "people" or "kid" when you mean "men" or "boys". It would be helpful for your women readers if you talk about how women gain muscle mass. You write that a motivated "kid" can gain 60 pounds of muscle in a year! I can read between the lines here, but most women are terrified that this will really happen to them. Can a broad-shouldered, motivated girl 5'6" weighing 120 pounds gain 30 pounds in a year of good steady training, good diet, and milk? And does she look good afterward? Like Misty May-Treanor and Shawn Johnson?

P.S. This beach volleyball player trains with heavy weights, explosive deadlifts, squats and hang cleans. She's much shorter than Misty's new partner at 5'7" and 135 pounds.
http://www.maxmuscle.com/index.cfm?f...e_conditioning

Thank you for letting me rant,
Vanessa

[Mark Rippetoe]

In other words, can a fit woman look good at 5'6" and 150? I'm thinking more like 160, especially if she has nice tits. I am quite partial to muscular women, and 5'6" at 120 is rather thin for my taste. And your concerns about women's training is specifically addressed in Strong Enough? Thanks for your support.