Squats and quad muscles

[hamworld05]

Do squats make all the quad muscles including the vastus lateralis stronger? I'm asking because my physiotherapist said my vastus lateralis is too strong and it's giving me knee pain. See I smashed my left knee playing soccer on the snow in January and now both knees hurt. Kinetic tape makes them feel better but I don't want to rely on them forever.

[RobCor]

Short answer, yes.

If your doc is concerned that an imbalanced force across the patella is causing your pain, the fact that squats make your hamstrings (along with many other things) grow as well should provide comfort.

[f4thpathway]

If the VL is "too strong" that means the VMO is too weak to make the knee track correctly. Just work on making the VMO stronger. Muscle imbalances happen and can be fixed. There is no such thing as a muscle that is too strong.

[hamworld05]

Short answer, yes.

If your doc is concerned that an imbalanced force across the patella is causing your pain, the fact that squats make your hamstrings (along with many other things) grow as well should provide comfort.

Oh okay. Thanks man.

[Dastardly]

My PT claimed I also had this problem, it seems it is a very common thing for them to recommend when seeing someone who squats. I used to have knee pain, but it went away when I started using lifting shoes and squatting high bar.

If you really want to work on your VMO specifically, I experimented with some very effective exercises. Try "speed skater squats".

Or if you want to resort to machines, leg extensions done at very high reps in a controlled manner are a safe exercise that will really get some burn in that inner quads area.

[tescott]

If the VL is "too strong" that means the VMO is too weak to make the knee track correctly. Just work on making the VMO stronger. Muscle imbalances happen and can be fixed. There is no such thing as a muscle that is too strong.

I've thought about this for myself. I get knee pain, and my VL is much more developed than my VM. Though, how would you recommend strengthening the VM? It seems there aren't any effective ways to isolate it. Would you change the squat technique? A different kind of squat? Lunges? ...?

[f4thpathway]

They're hard to target without aggravating the knees. Front squats or quad focused squatting styles can help. Some studies say that standing adduction type movements recruit them the most. Like crossovers. Basically propelling the body towards the outside of the working leg. I get solid activity with long distance lunges with full depth and no rear leg push off. Focusing on depth and no push off tends to shorten the stride and get a more forceful contraction of the working leg quads. As far as squatting styles, I experiment with fast paced bodyweight squats at different foot positions. It won't take long to find the position that targets the vm.

[hamworld05]

From what i've learned the VM (it is termed VMO for oblique in some instances) is only really active during the final 15-20 degrees of knee extension, and in the majority of exercises this is during the 'decceleration' phase of the concentric, so the VM does not fully contract. The key is to ensure you are performing exercises that require forceful flexion throughout the R.O.M., such as jumping and oly-lifting type work. Additionally, knee extensions on a machine or bench with dumbell between the feet, or Petersen step-ups are considered good alternatives.

Some info on why there exists a fairly common inbalance in the quadriceps muscles: the VM is one of the best-supplied muscles in terms of blood flow, and in conjunction with it's relative lack of contribution to walking & daily life in general it recovers very rapidly. It can therefore be trained fairly frequently, but is often not so is relatively weak compared to it's potential (considering the ease of modern existence in both expected daily tasks and terrain encountered).

The muscle fibres are orientated at quite an oblique angle to the femur (hence the term VMO), which is why it only contributes during the final R.O.M., the orientation of the fibres is such as to produce maximum force production over relatively small joint angles (similar to the deltoids' fibres if you are familiar with them).

I learned all this discussing the matter with a sports therapist who also holds a masters degree in physiotherapy, as i didn't originally 'buy it' completely, although parts made sense to me. Now it all does. Take it for what you will.

Really? If I jump, it'll make my knees feel better? That's good to know. However just by itself my knee seems to be feeling much better. I'm just not feeling a lot of pain these days.

[Dastardly]

In my instance I just did my own VMO exercises till my VMO was well developed and my PT was stumped about a cause for my knee pain. I always sort-of knew it was something else. My pain turned out to be massive hamstring dominance in my squat technique. So I started BOTH using heeled shoes and squatting high bar and the pain went away. I still ocassionally feel tendonitis in my hamstrings but nothing too bad. Front squats are actually the most comfortable for me of all.

[hamworld05]

In my instance I just did my own VMO exercises till my VMO was well developed and my PT was stumped about a cause for my knee pain. I always sort-of knew it was something else. My pain turned out to be massive hamstring dominance in my squat technique. So I started BOTH using heeled shoes and squatting high bar and the pain went away. I still ocassionally feel tendonitis in my hamstrings but nothing too bad. Front squats are actually the most comfortable for me of all.

Glad to hear you got rid of your own nagging knee injury man.