Knee trouble

[toonttm]

I have a slight pain at the front of my kneecap that is getting worse. Playing Dr Google I came up with 'chondromalacia patella'. One of the causes is flat feet and I vaguely remember having the same type of pain 10 years ago when I was first told I had flat feet.

The treatment then consisted of strengthing the hamstrings and quads, which is what is recommended on the site I looked at.

I squat 3 times a week (currently 95kg, 5 sets of 5) and cycle to work 6 days a week so I doubt that there is anything wrong with the strength in my legs.
(should add I just started back lifting about 4 weeks ago after having 6 weeks off while travelling)

So being that the recommended treatment (if my google diagnosis is even correct) is strength exercise, should I continue squatting or give it a rest?

[f4thpathway]

How are your VMOs?

[toonttm]

How are your VMOs?

the power of google, now i know what a VMO is. Seems that the squat is one of many recommended ways of strengthening the VMO. I do wear running shoes with orthotics in when squatting. I am pretty sure my knee is going out over my toe and not folding inwards but I'll try and film my knee to double check. Would a few sets of leg extension help? I think I remember doing these 10 years ago when I had physio for knee problems that were apparently caused by flat feet.

[f4thpathway]

the power of google, now i know what a VMO is. Seems that the squat is one of many recommended ways of strengthening the VMO. I do wear running shoes with orthotics in when squatting. I am pretty sure my knee is going out over my toe and not folding inwards but I'll try and film my knee to double check. Would a few sets of leg extension help? I think I remember doing these 10 years ago when I had physio for knee problems that were apparently caused by flat feet.

Leg extensions are used to develop vmo strength in rehab. Be careful with them though.

Don't squat in running shoes, this will greatly worsen the condition. You can front squat to develop the vmo. Or do leg presses with your feet really close to each other. That is, if its a matter of vmo weakness compared to the lateralis. That causes typical maltracking.

[Gunnhild Bruno]

I squat 3 times a week (currently 95kg, 5 sets of 5) and cycle to work 6 days a week so I doubt that there is anything wrong with the strength in my legs.
(should add I just started back lifting about 4 weeks ago after having 6 weeks off while travelling)

So being that the recommended treatment (if my google diagnosis is even correct) is strength exercise, should I continue squatting or give it a rest?

I would actually pinpoint the cycling as the more likely source of the problem due to its repetitive nature.

[f4thpathway]

I would actually pinpoint the cycling as the more likely source of the problem due to its repetitive nature.

Which is even more likely to be the case if there is maltracking due to vmo weakness. That should only come into play for a cyclist with a short stroke that doesn't fully extend the knee.

[Gunnhild Bruno]

Which is even more likely to be the case if there is maltracking due to vmo weakness. That should only come into play for a cyclist with a short stroke that doesn't fully extend the knee.

Yes, and though cycling is not an area of expertise for me, I would suspect that many recreational cyclists, such as those who use cycling to commute, would have this technique flaw. Does that gel with your experience?

[f4thpathway]

It gels.

[toonttm]

Well tried some squats today after none for 5 days and left with no/very minor knee pain. I had a think and concluded that the problem wasn't occurring last year but I was also wearing different shoes. I used to use a pair of casual 'sports' shoes that had a 5mm solid rubber sole with around a 15mm solid rubber heal, the shoe doesn't flex very well so I never wore them but thought they would be good to squat in. Not sure why I have gone back to my runners? So today I added some orthotics to them and will stick with these shoes over the next few weeks.

One thing I did notice was that there is a very tender spot just above the knee, slightly to the left?

When cycling I don't fully straighten the knee but I am very close, I have the seat set at the maximum possible height between pedal and seat for my leg size. I have been cycling for nearly 2 years without any issue. I also spent a year doing front squats, leg extensions, machine squats etc once a week before changing over to the back squats so I think my legs should be ok. So kinda leads me back to the shoes or maybe my squat form is just plain wrong?

I did record some of my squats but took the camera and left the memory card at home so had to use my phone. So the field of view is restricted and I need to edit the 'down time' so I'll put it up later in the week. One thing that surprised me is that I was worried I was going to low but in actual fact I am not low enough.

Anyway, thanks for the help so far.

[toonttm]

Ahh, got the videos done. I had to convert the file type which altered the ratio (made me look taller and thinner, sweet!) so the clip looks distorted, second problem is using the phone with a limited field of view. i can put some more up done with a camera in 2 days time if you want. I've never had anyone look at my squat so interested, and still find it funny to see how far I go down, I swear I was going deeper, lol (Oh, and I am wearing a belt, it is under my top)