Assistance exercises

[skipbeat]

Wondering if assistance exercises are best performed with a barbell or dumbbells, and if the same movement with dumbbells is a good assistance exercise (eg. dumbbell bench press for barbell bench).

It probably has to do with goals right? Dumbbells for hypertrophy and barbells for strength?

Is it better to just do a similar exercise (incline bench), or another exercise that hits the muscles used (LTE, Dips)?

disclaimer: i'm not asking for my own training (no need for assistance yet); was just wondering in general.

I haven't gotten my SSe3 yet, and I know it's talked about there, so this thread has to hold me over until then.. to me it seems like dumbbell bench and dumbbell press would be good assistance exercises for their barbell counterparts. But dips and LTE are also viable, so does it just come down to preference?

[hamburgerfan]

Dumbbells are best used with higher reps anyway so they're fine for assistance. Try it and see if it helps your bench.

[Dastardly]

You should choose assistance work based on your weaknesses. If stability is your problem, or you have a weak bottom part of you bench then dumb bell benching will be useful as you can work from a greater depth than possible with a bar and challenge your stability.

Dips however, are EXCELLENT for applying maximum load to your triceps and chest. Because your chest is facing down, gravity is pulling you ito a position with lockoed shoulder blades removing a great limitation of the bench; (the need to get into the perfect position with tight back and great tension to be able to press out the heaviest weights). With dips most of this challenge is done for you, so you can simple focus on lowering yourself slowly, stretching pecs/biceps under maximum load and squeezing yourself back up by locking out triceps. There is a lot more to focus on with a barbell/dumb bell bench press, so you are rarely applying maximal stresses to individual muscle groups.

[PerseusStoned]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is LTE?

[hamburgerfan]

Lying tricep extensions.

[Tom Narvaez]

Dastardly pretty much nailed it. Dumbbells can generally allow you to have greater range of motion, which can help you work through weak points. Many raw benchers feel that dumbbell benching helps out of the bottom particularly if you add the pause. They also allow greater freedom for your wrists and shoulders. For many people, they are a fantastic way to train without the pain that may accompany barbell work.

Assistance is used in a variety of ways: preventing muscular imbalances, improving specific weaknesses, hypertrophy (with volume work), increasing the ability to display strength (with plyometric or power work), conditioning, and, probably most commonly, as a means to alleviate training ADD and boredom.

You have to know what you are trying to get out of your assistance exercise before you program it. It is very individual which is why it is generally best left to the intermediate stages of adaptation and beyond.

At some point in their training, most people probably can and will benefit from direct hamstring and glute work, upper back and lat work, and core work. Everybody has a different structural build and different strengths and weaknesses. So, again, it really all depends on what the goal is and on the individual lifter in most cases.

[skipbeat]

I'm really bad when I have a ton of choices. I'll end up overdoing it or messing it up somehow. That's why I generally stick with the SS layout, it's idiot-proof, and I can clearly measure when I'm progressing and when I fuck up. Wouldn't just doing the same lift over a different rep scheme drive that lift up better than assistance lifts?

Ex: 250 3x5 bench
assistance - 180 3x8 (separated by an exercise or two).

While also getting all the good stuff about training both rep ranges? For me personally if I start adding a bunch of shit it'll never stop and I'll have a hard time deciding between dips or dumbbells for example, so just sticking to the basics for a while would be optimal.

[Tom Narvaez]

All elite lifters are either elite progammers or coached by them.

Personally, I love programming. I'm pretty much a freak, but I spend a couple minutes, if not more, every single day just day dreaming about how to program things for various goals.

Assistance programming doesn't have to be hard and when you get to the point where it is helpful, it will make more sense where to begin.

If you are hamstring weak, working in different rep ranges isn't going to change the fact that your quads and glutes want to take over the movement in various places that they shouldn't. Sure, you could lower the weight and make sure you use immaculate form, but it often results in slower progress than specifically targeting a weak link. Simultaneously, it can also cause some level of detraining for the other muscles groups for which the weight is light to cause a major adaptive stress.

Most people have program ADD and it is why they make no progress. Eventually, you'll get past the point where SS and TM meet your needs and you'll have to figure out what to do without a cookie cutter template laid out for you. If you stick to one goal, you'll stumble across the correct programming one way or another. If you ever listen to Kroc talk about why he started doing those insane dumbbell rows, it is because he would occasionally hurt his back before a meet and replaced some of the deadlift work with upperback work. He would always pull his best numbers with super low volume deadlifting and high volume rowing. Without the injuries and his meticulous notes, he never would have discovered the benefit of Kroc Rows. Assistance isn't always carefully selected. Sometimes you just get lucky and find something that makes a huge difference.

I recall a line from PP, though not exactly, that says something like during the intermediate stage a lifter will experiment with exercise selection more than at any other time in his career. There is a reason for this and there is no way around the learning curve if you don't have a good coach. Even then, it only shortens the curve.

[stonerider]

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