Member
Oly. lifting question
I know that you starting strength guys tend to do your cleans with your hips higher at the start of the pull. I've been watching videos of cleans and snatches. I can't figure out if people ever start the pull with their hips much lower.
I was having a convo today about cleans and snatches and I said that you are never supposed to start the pull with your hips below parallel. I have been home a few hours and I just remembered that a lot of people start with their hips lower to change the pull.
So I've been watching videos and I can't tell when people start the pull. Some people squat pretty deep before they pull but it's hard to tell when the bar actually leaves the ground?
TMPHBITEU
Why is it hard to tell when the bar actually leaves the ground? Download the video as an MP4 and open it in QuickTime. Frame through it using the forward/back buttons. Start with this one, at 0:55 and 2:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQZjC7cNbyE
This one is already slow enough to see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsXY7KxegAc
✓ Member
Forthright, I would like to add the following:
When watching folks do these movements to determine where their hips are when the bar breaks the ground, ensure that the weight is sufficiently heavy enough to constitute a clean or a snatch.
One can pull a PVC pipe from any position, and it truly teaches nothing, shows nothing, and serves to introduce bad habits, poor understanding, and shitty form.
When practicing with lighter weights, the form used when the weight must be replicated exactly. This is best done with the eye of an knowledgable, experienced coach.
[SARCASM]Anyone with a computer and access to the internet will do.[/SARCASM]
Member
My opinion is that the pull starts from above parallel but I'm still not sure if there are any lifters who start below parallel. Seems like their hips shoot up pretty fast regardless though.
TMPHBITEU
It is not a matter of opinion. Watch the video. Watch lots of videos. Our point is that if there is enough weight on the bar, the bar will not come off the ground before the hips are in position to place the shoulders forward of the bar anyway. IOW, at weight, the position is not voluntary. So you might just as well start there.
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etpg_PfFiZ8
Hips look slightly below parallel or maybe just at parallel to me. Obviously this is just one example, but a lot of the Chinese lifters seem to use this pulling method. Part of this is likely dictated by body proportions.
TMPHBITEU
This is a snatch. It is not heavy relative to his absolute strength. If it were 50 k, he could pull it from behind his legs. I know subtle points are difficult to follow, but I'm really tired of explaining this hundreds of times.
Starting Strength Coach
Are we really doing this again?
Can't we just point everyone at one of the old threads?
Member
The snatch example was a sub maximal weight. If you scroll down you will find a video of LU doing snatch pulls with 180 kg and his hips are much higher at the instant of separation (IOS). His max snatch is 175 kg which I have not seen from the side but would think that it would be similar to the 180 kg snatch pulls.
Member
I do know that it was a sub-max weight, but it's hard to find videos of maximal weights from the side. On his 180 snatch pulls his hips seem just about at parallel to me at the instant of separation. For his cleans, his hips are slightly higher but not that far above parallel. Shoulders are probably directly over the bar or maybe slightly forward.Originally Posted by AdamBlalock
What I find fascinating about watching Lu Xiaojun is how quickly he hits that triple extension. People think he's lifting flat footed often because he just moves so fucking fast, but when you watch it you see that he does hit full triple extension.
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