Is Speed Work in the Sport of Powerlifting & General Strength Training USELESS?

[checkhookko]

Hello Coach Rip. This question may be below the standards of the typical questions you receive in this forum. However, I feel as though it needs your expert opinion.

I just finished reading this article: http://jtsstrength.com/articles/2013...k-doesnt-work/

Given the author's argument, do you feel the same way in regards to the uselessness of speed work in Powerlifting? This has troubled me to some degree because the Westside Method may be a program that I might try in the future.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Funny you should ask. I spoke to Mike Tuchscherer about this last night. I wanted to tell him I support his position on speed training as a major distraction from strength training, and how we explain this in our seminar. Mike makes the point that the only way to ensure that an absolute maximum force production rep occurs is to load the bar to a 1RM.

The relationship between force production and acceleration is discussed in BBT, and is the basis of the dynamic effort method. Acceleration is volitional for a squat, bench, press, or deadlift, while it is inherent in a completed clean or snatch. IOW, how do you "miss" a DE deadlift? If a power clean is missed, there was insufficient acceleration/force, whereas "sufficient" acceleration in a lift that does not depend on an unpowered momentum phase for its completion is completely volitional, i.e. the acceleration displayed need not meet any objective standard for completion of the rep. In contrast, if you fail to generate enough force to complete a 1RM, an objectively assessed lack of sufficient force has been produced.

Mike makes the further point that heavy reps are the only way to train the isometric aspects of the basic exercises, the "technique" aspects of holding the correct position in the full movement as the weight moves through its ROM. This is one reason the deadlift contributes to the clean and snatch.

He makes the observation that many people have reported success with DE work. I would refer them to this: http://startingstrength.com/index.ph..._novice_effect
which simplifies many otherwise complicated things.

In general, the further away you get from heavy sets of 5, at any level of training advancement, the more removed you are from the basic stimulus for long-term strength acquisition. The history is pretty clear.

[Eric Larousse]

So speed work is useful for more advanced lifters and maybe intermediates but not for novices?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Did you read the article?

[checkhookko]

Funny you should ask. I spoke to Mike Tuchscherer about this last night. I wanted to tell him I support his position on speed training as a major distraction from strength training, and how we explain this in our seminar. Mike makes the point that the only way to ensure that an absolute maximum force production rep occurs is to load the bar to a 1RM.

The relationship between force production and acceleration is discussed in BBT, and is the basis of the dynamic effort method. Acceleration is volitional for a squat, bench, press, or deadlift, while it is inherent in a completed clean or snatch. IOW, how do you "miss" a DE deadlift? If a power clean is missed, there was insufficient acceleration/force, whereas "sufficient" acceleration in a lift that does not depend on an unpowered momentum phase for its completion is completely volitional, i.e. the acceleration displayed need not meet any objective standard for completion of the rep. In contrast, if you fail to generate enough force to complete a 1RM, an objectively assessed lack of sufficient force has been produced.

Mike makes the further point that heavy reps are the only way to train the isometric aspects of the basic exercises, the "technique" aspects of holding the correct position in the full movement as the weight moves through its ROM. This is one reason the deadlift contributes to the clean and snatch.

He makes the observation that many people have reported success with DE work. I would refer them to this: http://startingstrength.com/index.ph..._novice_effect
which simplifies many otherwise complicated things.

In general, the further away you get from heavy sets of 5, at any level of training advancement, the more removed you are from the basic stimulus for long-term strength acquisition. The history is pretty clear.

Thanks for your input, Coach. I just read Louie's response to Tuchscherer's article and he stated that he turned to the Dynamic Effort Method because he and other lifters "could not handle a second high-intensity, or 95% and above, workout twice a week." This seems a bit strange to me because it appears to have been more of an issue of properly working out one's percentages in regards to the Powerlifts than the lack of any "speed" work. In addition, recovery could have been an underlying factor as well, which you highly emphasize in more advanced programs such as the Texas Method.

Well, given your response, it looks like the Westside Method may not be ideal for me in regards to strength training. Thank you again, Coach.

[Eric Larousse]

My comment for the article is that it all comes down to is that Mike T says "I've tested it" but provides no details. If he's stating "I've tested speed work and power production is less than using heavier weights", he needs to qualify that statement with a lot more info: how he tested it, how many subjects, what kind of population, what were the exact results (what was the peak force produced in a 65, 75 and 85% lift with maximal intentional speed, as opposed to a 90-100% lift), and whether and how these results change after a few months of incorporating "speed work" to one's programming.

Basically, as it stands, the article can be translated to "in my experience, it doesn't work". Which is important enough on its own right as an anecdotal account from a high-level lifter, but does not fulfill the "here is why it doesn't work" part of the article.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Damn, Eric, I completely missed that part of the article. I thought he was just writing about his experience. You seem to have designed a study, so Hop To It, man!

[hamburgerfan]

Thanks for your input, Coach. I just read Louie's response to Tuchscherer's article and he stated that he turned to the Dynamic Effort Method because he and other lifters "could not handle a second high-intensity, or 95% and above, workout twice a week." This seems a bit strange to me because it appears to have been more of an issue of properly working out one's percentages in regards to the Powerlifts than the lack of any "speed" work. In addition, recovery could have been an underlying factor as well, which you highly emphasize in more advanced programs such as the Texas Method.

Well, given your response, it looks like the Westside Method may not be ideal for me in regards to strength training. Thank you again, Coach.

Could you post Louie's response?

[ForbiddenDonut]

Basically, as it stands, the article can be translated to "in my experience, it doesn't work". Which is important enough on its own right as an anecdotal account from a high-level lifter, but does not fulfill the "here is why it doesn't work" part of the article.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrGIh84HBzg

Something tells me that we can trust what this guy has to say.

[AdamW]

Any chance of a Starting Strength interview in the future with Mike? Really smart guy, would love to hear anything you guys have to talk about.