Discussion of shoes at seminars

[grubinski]

I was told esentially that I wouldn't be allowed to deadlift in my vibrams at the seminar that I attended. Fine, I wore my lifting shoes. I haven't worn them since.

There is a HUGE amount of VERY good information imparted at the seminars. There is also a fair amount of dogma. It's up to the individual to sort out for themselves what they want to keep and what they want to toss.

It was well worth my time to put up with a little dogma in order to learn more about this progrem. My wife remarked that I was a better coach (of her, in our garage) for it.

[Note: this post and followups were moved out of a different thread by admin]

[Brian Harlin]

I was told esentially that I wouldn't be allowed to deadlift in my vibrams at the seminar that I attended. Fine, I wore my lifting shoes. I haven't worn them since.

There is a HUGE amount of VERY good information imparted at the seminars. There is also a fair amount of dogma. It's up to the individual to sort out for themselves what they want to keep and what they want to toss.

It was well worth my time to put up with a little dogma in order to learn more about this progrem. My wife remarked that I was a better coach (of her, in our garage) for it.

Well, I can't imagine squatting or pressing without my lifting shoes on. I've benched with cycling shoes on (SPD). I deadlifted for a long time with weightlifting shoes on, I have found that I prefer socks. Deadlifting; I think could go either way, depending on anthropometry, flexibility, and preference. If I went to a seminar (which I would like to do some day) I would go with the intent to pass and acquire the SSC certification.

The SS method is a method. I understand that. It's a very well thought out, tried, and backed with results and experience method. There are obviously other methods in the lifting world, some are useful, some are debatable, some are bullshit. Personally, I think deadlifting barefoot is debatable. If your form is otherwise good, I don't see a problem with it.
It shouldn't be the default, but I see it as a legitimate option. I compare this with knee wraps that are considered optional. To me (I'm not a coach, just an observation) knee wraps are over used. They should be optional, but not the default.

Obviously the SS method is for teaching the lifts. When teaching, removing variables is helpful. I see the value in that.

[Steve Hill]

I was told esentially that I wouldn't be allowed to deadlift in my vibrams at the seminar that I attended. Fine, I wore my lifting shoes. I haven't worn them since.

There is a HUGE amount of VERY good information imparted at the seminars. There is also a fair amount of dogma. It's up to the individual to sort out for themselves what they want to keep and what they want to toss.

It was well worth my time to put up with a little dogma in order to learn more about this progrem. My wife remarked that I was a better coach (of her, in our garage) for it.

I'm not sure what seminar you attended, but I know for a fact that A) no one told you that you could not lift in your vibrams (you were most likely told we strongly recommended against it, and Rip would make fun of you if you did), and B) there is little to no dogma at the seminar, because we state up front and repeatedly that if you wish to content anything we say, to speak right up, because we want to convince you that our reasoning is based on sound principles. I know that because I state specifically that in the first hour on Friday night.

That being said, there's little to no scientific evidence of any repute about the appropriateness of heavy loads on the human foot without arch support and a secure means of anchoring the foot in the shoe (metatarsal strap), while there is several decades of experience with such devices.

[stef]

FF Vibrams are not allowed for lifting at the seminars because they are not proper shoes.

Shoes have been discussed about a million times in the books, on the website, off the website, in bars and so forth. They come up sometimes at seminars and are discussed there as well.

[Immortal_k]

I don't see how shoes matter, it's a subjective matter entirely. Great lifters have used everything from socks to WL shoes, all to great effect. I saw a picture of Capt. Kirk squatting 405lb with tennis shoes at WFAC.

[Brian Harlin]

Part of my issue is my particular shoe: VS Athletic. They have a pretty high heel (7/8" I believe). I may not have any issues with a 1/2" heel deadlifting.

[stef]

Shoes affect mechanics. Different heel heights can work to modify relative limb lengths as well as alter flexibility. The effect depends on the person and the lift. Stability is a huge benefit that solid shoes (weightlifting, powerlifting, good boots) have over soggy, unstable shoe soles.

Safety and long term foot health is a different consideration entirely.

You all are free to consider these things or not and experiment (as you should) to your heart's content, but the shoe requirement at the seminar remains the same.

[Brian Harlin]

I don't see how shoes matter, it's a subjective matter entirely. Great lifters have used everything from socks to WL shoes, all to great effect. I saw a picture of Capt. Kirk squatting 405lb with tennis shoes at WFAC.

I have pressed by accident in tennis shoes, having forgotten to change. I realized my error in my first rep, I felt squishy and unstable. I still made all my lifts. To me it's not so much about being able to make the lift. Kirk could probably squat 405 in stilettos, I mean, we're talking about Captain Kirk! The real issue is a consistent reproducible form from which to build strength. You can demonstrate that strength out the world in less than ideal conditions, but you want ideal conditions to build it. Or as my voice coach used to tell me, "practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect." Which he stole from Lombardi...

[Steve Hill]

FF Vibrams are not allowed for lifting at the seminars because they are not proper shoes.

Shoes have been discussed about a million times in the books, on the website, off the website, in bars and so forth. They come up sometimes at seminars and are discussed there as well.

I stand corrected - in shoes, of course!