Isolation/ bodybuilding training for a novice

[farmgorgon]

I'm new here so apologise if this is the wrong sub forum. I'd also like to state first that I'm not questioning the reason of the SS philosophy, I'm merely asking for an explanation. I'm also not seeking to debate the merits of volume/ intensity based weight training. (I've done a few searches and can't see this is previously covered.)

I accept that 'body building' training should only be done (if at all) after TM/ 5-3-2-1 in the Intermediate stage.

My question is why, if the goal is simply muscular development, can this not added at the novice stage? A muscle group does not know how much it is lifting. The biological of the muscle cells is the same whether the muscle has never been properly trained before or trained for several years. So why- if the sole goal is hypertrophy- should bodybuilding movements be added at the Intermediate Stage, but not at the Novice stage?

TIA

Ed.

[Carnivroar]

I think most here will say that it's a waste of time since the exercises in SS will put on muscle very easily on noobs because they are unadapted. You can however do assistance exercises such as pull ups, dips and chins. That should be more than enough.

[farmgorgon]

No, I understand that's the perceived wisdom, but if muscular development is enhanced by adding assistance exercises as an intermediate, why isnt it as a novice? A muscle doesn't know what level of development it has, it just responds to a stimulus.....

[Raleighwood]

You can only adapt so much within a given time frame. For novices, SS pretty much tries to maximize their adaption ability within that time frame.

Adding in more stuff may hurt recovery capacity. SS is designed for the general masses, not individuals. One individual may be able to add in curls or whatever and be fine with it, while a majority of other trainees will suffer.

You can train however you want. However if you come in here asking why your recovery or advancement sucks and you say you've been adding in shit people will say do the fucking program.

[Sean Berry]

Put more weight on the bar in the big lifts if you feel the need to do a bunch of assistance work, this feeling will soon pass.

The point is: isolation and body building will be a hindrance to recovery. If you are doing the program, and can still recover and make gains with added assistance work, keep adding weight to the bar.

More complicated stuff can happen later.

edit: oops RW beat me to it, and did a better job.

sb

[LimieJosh]

The goal of strength/resistance training is to apply a stimulus that is large enough to cause a supercompensation. At the novice stage only a small stress is required, which provides the added advantage of the individual being able to apply it again (and recover fully) in a short period of time, ergo gains are rapid.

With time and exposure to such a stimulus, further supercompensation only comes with stimuli of greater magnitude. This explains the volume workout of the Texas method. However, the downside is that this also requires a greater length of time to recover from, which explains the subsequent workout of the texas method.

A body building routine is the extreme end of this change, and it makes perfect sense if one understands the principals explained above. These individuals are highly adapted and so require a tremendous beating to stimulate further growth, hence the development of the body building type routine with numerous exercises or multiple sets for each body part. A novice can do them and get some progress with them, but they are specifically developed for highly adapted people.

[LimieJosh]

A muscle doesn't know what level of development it has, it just responds to a stimulus.....

A "stimulus" is relative to the level of adaptation. Benching 225 is not a stimulus for adaptation to me, because me my body is used to it. To a novice this would be a "stimulus". While I dont like speaking in such a way, you could therefore say that a muscle does "know" what level of advancement it has reached.

[Carnivroar]

The goal of strength/resistance training is to apply a stimulus that is large enough to cause a supercompensation. At the novice stage only a small stress is required, which provides the added advantage of the individual being able to apply it again (and recover fully) in a short period of time, ergo gains are rapid.

With time and exposure to such a stimulus, further supercompensation only comes with stimuli of greater magnitude. This explains the volume workout of the Texas method. However, the downside is that this also requires a greater length of time to recover from, which explains the subsequent workout of the texas method.

A body building routine is the extreme end of this change, and it makes perfect sense if one understands the principals explained above. These individuals are highly adapted and so require a tremendous beating to stimulate further growth, hence the development of the body building type routine with numerous exercises or multiple sets for each body part. A novice can do them and get some progress with them, but they are specifically developed for highly adapted people.

Wow very well said!

[antony]

The goal of strength/resistance training is to apply a stimulus that is large enough to cause a supercompensation. At the novice stage only a small stress is required, which provides the added advantage of the individual being able to apply it again (and recover fully) in a short period of time, ergo gains are rapid.

With time and exposure to such a stimulus, further supercompensation only comes with stimuli of greater magnitude. This explains the volume workout of the Texas method. However, the downside is that this also requires a greater length of time to recover from, which explains the subsequent workout of the texas method.

A body building routine is the extreme end of this change, and it makes perfect sense if one understands the principals explained above. These individuals are highly adapted and so require a tremendous beating to stimulate further growth, hence the development of the body building type routine with numerous exercises or multiple sets for each body part. A novice can do them and get some progress with them, but they are specifically developed for highly adapted people.

Well put. Some thoughts though

I believe that as you approach your genetic limit, the asymptotic limit which every one of us has, further stimulation for continued adaptation and supercompensation becomes increasingly hard, as in the timescale during which improvement occurs become VERY long. Hence, you inevitably have many many workouts properly and intelligently arranged before improvement/supercompensation can actually take place.
I believe in these very advanced stages, no matter what the sport (track and field, weightlifting, pretty much any performance oriented power/speed sport etc), reductions in overall workload/volume (maybe cutting back some lifts altogether) would be necessary in order for further intensification.
That why you have advanced lifters in OL, cutting back on squats and other unrelated exercises or maintaining them without opting for further gains in them , and specializing completely on the competition lifts, since devoting time -in this level of trainingadvancement- in unrelated stimuli would be COUNTERPRODUCTIVE, if maximum performance is to be achieved. Putting all your adaptive energy/resources in the primary lift is ideal for elite competitive athletes. This doesn't mean, that training THIS way, is how you GET to that level in the first place.
Same with throwers, or even sprinters, cutting back on supportive activities or maintaining them with lower intensities. It's all a matter of how you handle your finite adaptive resources in this level, and i believe that further increases in workload or volume would be very risky/counterproductive. At the intemediate stages though, increasing volumes/workoload would be PERFECTLY fine.
How you train, should change at different levels of training advancement according to how close you get to your genetic potential. And how close an individual is to its genetic potential has everything to do with how long it takes them to supercompensate from their MAIN training lifts.
In bbing though, where performances dont matter much, such an approach could be wrong.
That's what i think..

[Tiburon]

So why- if the sole goal is hypertrophy- should bodybuilding movements be added at the Intermediate Stage, but not at the Novice stage?

Because hypertrophy isn't the sole goal of the novice program. And if it is, then YNDTFP