They don't reconcile. They add some intelligently-restrained exercise to a strength training program. It's not perfect, but that's what their members want, and it pays the bills.
Member
Reconciling Crossfit with Starting Strength
As the months tick by in my search to open a new gym on the Westside (Los Angeles), I've spent some time looking at some of the other gyms around the country - specifically the Starting Strength gyms. I was a bit shocked to find out that nearly half of the gyms are also Crossfits.
This seems strange to me as the two are fundamentally opposed. My question is how do these gyms reconcile "constantly varied, high intensity, functional movements" with "physical activity performed for the purpose of satisfying a long-term performance goal" via logical and methodical planning. I summarize this as the box vs the training facility.
I have my own theories on how to do this (we can talk more about it in January), but I'm interested to hear how other gyms are doing it, and more importantly, how they feel about having both in their gyms. If Crossfit is the opposite of what works for strength, and strength is the most important physical attribute for both sport and health, aren't we (crossfit trainers/gym owners) doing a disservice to our clientele by providing this service? Or do these gyms simply modify the Crossfit programming enough to make it useful. If so, how are they doing this?
TMPHBITEU
They don't reconcile. They add some intelligently-restrained exercise to a strength training program. It's not perfect, but that's what their members want, and it pays the bills.
Member
We need to stop doing this. For the past two years, I've subsidized clients doing "real training" with large classes of folks doing pretty-fucking-far-from-optimal shit. I know lots of coaches survive using a similar business model.Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe
I would avoid the doctor, chiro or physical therapist who administered any treatment based on market demand or to pay bills.
I think we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard.
Starting Strength Coach
See, here's the deal: Every single business has to make money, or it won't be a business after all the available cash runs out. Crossfit does a really good job at appealing to a large number of folks, getting them in the door, and most importantly, retaining them (keeping them paying the gym).
Unlike just about every other fitness craze out there, Crossfit has made a couple of things appealing to the masses: Barbells in people's hands, doing movements with barbells, and that it is now socially acceptable for women to walk around in spandex, for which I say THANK YOU, on all counts. Sue me, I like looking at women.
What no one can do is make people smarter. And that is unfortunate. Many, many people will think, for the rest of their lives, that if they just did "X" harder, they'd get better at "X". And, as we've talked about here, that works for a little while. But not forever, or for even a long time.
In ANY sport, the smart athletes (or the best coached athletes - there are plenty of athletes out there that are dumber than a box of rocks) realize that they have to go outside of their sport for improvement, and that that improvement comes in the form of BEING STRONGER. That pertains to just about ANY sport.
You can't make people smarter, or want to be better - at least on the long term. Crossfit, as much as we disagree with their methodology, is doing one great benefit to society: they are giving more people the opportunity to realize this truth. All we can do is educate them on why getting stronger, for ANY purpose in life, is a smart idea. They have to make the choice. If you try to jam people into it, most will just quit, for many reasons: boredom, societal pressure, whatever.
Member
Oh neat, another crossfit thread. This should keep my week interesting.
Not to turn this into another "zumba is training" thread, but goals matter. As a gym owner, all you're doing is providing a service that matches the wants and goals of a particular client base.
For reference, I coach at a fairly large crossfit gym. We have about 400 members, so I get to interact with a lot of crossfitters on a daily basis. About 95% of them have the following goals, listed in order of importance:
1. Healthier lifestyle, general improvement in quality of living
2. Look good naked
3. Moderate performance goals like a 315lb squat, decent Fran time, decent 5k time, and the ability to do some party tricks like muscle ups and handstands
That's it. And it turns out crossfit is pretty good at fulfilling those three goals simultaneously.
You're only doing a disservice to your members if you're not providing the service they're paying for. For example, if someone at my gym comes to me and wants to squat 500lbs, I would absolutely be doing them a disservice if I told them to just do cf.com programming. Likewise, if someone came to me and said they're going on vacation in 2 months and want some abbzzz for the beach, it'd be a disservice to put them on SS and GOMAD. Goals matter.
Once you leave the microcosm of SS and the SS community you realize that the majority of mainstream gymgoers don't really care about squatting 4/5/600lbs. And that's okay.
Starting Strength Coach
TMPHBITEU
I agree. But this is not always possible.
If you think that what we do here is only about squatting 4/5/600lbs, you've completely missed the point. And that's NOT okay.
Member
I get this in theory, it's the specifics of the bolded that I'm unsure about. How do you do that and still Crossfit?
This is how I feel, but at the same time I believe group cross training (what Crossfit can and should be) is perfectly fine. It's the whole "constant variation" thing that disturbs me.
Exactly. And intelligent programming to achieve those goals is paramount. Dicking around doing different shit all the time is not a good way to go about achieving those goals. Again cross-TRAINING is fine.
But a healthy portion of SS gyms are. My guess is you'd have to do a lot of 1-on-1 personal training to pay the bills without crossfit? Is there another effective model?
Member
I think you're missing a key driver of demand in your end market (sorry for the business-speak, but this is literally my job). All of those goals you have listed are most optimally achieved through the acquisition of strength. We also know the most optimal way to acquire strength, or at least those here who have read the books. So if those goals were really true, then you'd have a lot more people opening up SS gyms.
What you're missing is the threshold of your gymgoers wanting to reach those goals comfortably.
I mean "comfort" as one's willingness to do a task, regardless of the physical discomfort associated with it. A crossfit/strength hybrid allows some (some) people to reach your stated goals above, at a slower pace than intelligently programmed strength training, while being within the realm of things they will willingly do. It's okay to cater to that demographic if you want, but understand your demographic.
Member
I do strength training in a Crossfit gym. They do their stuff, I do mine.
I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think it's quite the same. If you're actively telling people Crossfit is the better way to go, the analogy would be closer. But you're simply providing people with what they ask for, while simultaneously offering a better alternative. If they choose the sub-optimal route, it's still better than most of what's out there.
For all its flaws, Crossfit is a better method of acquiring strength and fitness than a whole slew of other things they could be wasting time on. This is of course assuming you're not actually harming them with Crossfit workouts.
Yeah, we're also about deadlifting 5/6/700lbs.
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