Exhausting Linear Progression

[Sgsolberg]

So I'm listening to the 70's Big episode of Iron Radio (from last Friday), and I listen to Justin talk about how he took his squat from the mid 300's to 465x5x3 using the linear progression. Now, Justin came in strong by most people's definition, but progressed excellently. He also stated that he does not believe that people exhaust their novice phase.

I started as a skinny-fat guy (5'10", 188 bw, probably 25% bf) and have gotten much stronger while increasing in weight to 217 lbs and leaning out to about 20% bf (both bf calculations are approximations based on a formula using waist. I doubt it's accuracy, but I'm still pretty chubby). I'm now finding my recovery is becoming an issue.

I can either cut for a short while and resume my novice progression from a leaner state (PSMF, then resume), or I can continue to lift in this progression while having to increase my caloric intake and probably increasing bf% again. Either way, I'm planning to continue with a linear training method for quite some time (I think the 500/400/300/200 is possible on the program).

So for those of you with legitimate opinions (ie those of you with squats >350x5x3), which route would you take?

My stats again are:
5'10" tall,
217 lbs
~20% bf
Squat: 335x5x3 (getting tough)
Bench: 205x5x3 (I know, but it's still progressing)
Deadlift: 365x5 (progressing fine)
Press: 140x5x3

[Dwayne_KONG_Wint]

I don't think your bf% will increase. Your total bf weight may increase but so will your total non-bf weight. In my opinion, the adaptations you have gained up to this point aren't worth dieting away now.

I guess it comes down to what do you want more. A 500 lb squat or a lower bodyfat percentage now? I suggest the 500 lb squat, you may be surprised at what your bf % ends up being in the end.

If you need more recovery there are several things you can do on top of eating more and getting better sleep. Take a look at your programming, do you think you could get away with deadlifting less, do you think you need a recovery day on squats midweek, etc.

First order of business should be getting you a little more recovery in your program for now while you feel a little burnt. Just keep progressing and save the diet for the end.

Again it depends on your goals. I personally want to squat over 500 and deadlift over 600 more than I want my abs back. I had them [the abs] for so long that I think that I can get them back whenever I feel like it.

[IWillLiveFreeOrDie]

I'm not squatting over 350 yet for 5X3, but our numbers are very close.

If you think 335 is starting to get tough now just drop your calories and see what happens. I would try and exhaust the linear progression, and then diet for 2-3 weeks before moving on to intermediate programming.

You could do RFL or strict Atkins for 2-3 weeks and drop a lot of fat.

I agree with Justin that a lot of people fail to exhaust their novice phase. For whatever reason they do something that effects recovery, and then either end up in a cycle of resets, or try to move to intermediate programming.

[msingh]

I dont want to be 25-30%bf when i hit 300+ lb squat; i want to be around 15% bf at the most, so when the weight gets heavy, i can 70s big it and march soundly towards 400lb. That's why im working to get lean now. THe last thing you want to do is be a fat fuck who cant eat enough to smash his workouts at the 300lb+ mark

[Sgsolberg]

Msingh does not have a valid opinion. He's a pussy and he has no squat.

[msingh]

Look i understand your derision (but i have feelings too you know) it's just I have thought about my goals and decided I can probably hit 3x5 300 lb at a bodyweight of 85-90kg at 12-14% bf. Then eat 70s big (the whole 5000-7000 calorie diet), and continue making progress for months. I'll get fatter, but if i'm 25%bf while squatting 3x5 385lb, I wont mind so much. Rather, if i was 30%bf squatting 3x5 320lb, do you think I have any chance of hitting 350+lb unless I eat like a monster? So that's my logic.

Also realise justin was a fit guy who probably squatted 300lb at < 15%bf, so of course he could continue to make progress simply by ramping up the calories. Fat guys like us don't like to do that though, because we don't want to risk our health.

[Mr.City]

I'm so fucking sick of this weird ass bullshit about needing to eat a 1000+ calorie surplus to progress. It's been discussed many times, many ways both by us and by Rip. No more.

More on topic, I think form is a big issue when it comes to continuing linear progress. I've stalled at 320 on my squat because I was going forward too much, turning them into this standing leg press good morning. Gross form errors in the clean have left me overtrained recently. It's always good to check your form after a month or so, due to form creep. We all get it.

I agree with LiveFree about doing RFL or a similar diet for a short period should your body fat become too excess or an issue (military, clothing issues, etc). I know that I've lost 10 lbs on RFL and I haven't even been on it for a week.

[william jackson]

i have a squat >350 for three sets of 5.

have you failed during a workout? have you reset at all? have you taken a deload week? are you making 5lb jumps or trying to do 10lb. these are important questions.

i struggled at 320 for 3 of 5. took a short break (did some running, swimming, judo, light o-lift work) then came back to it. reset to 295lb for 3 of 5 and have been progressing up to 370 for 3 of 5. anytime you think your form is an abomination, stay at that weight for the next workout.

and i have no idea what my BF% was before or now. i look the same, composition wise, but i have gained 40+lbs

[Dastardly]

I'm so fucking sick of this weird ass bullshit about needing to eat a 1000+ calorie surplus to progress. It's been discussed many times, many ways both by us and by Rip. No more.

.

I spent a whole year putting huge amounts of effort and consistency in trying to hit a 1.5xBW squat which is a pretty modest target. I failed by a longshot and stalled 4 or so times along the way.

I am not 'skinny' and never have been. But I have come to understand the the logic and importance of the huge calorific excess. Even though I am not skinny and have 15-18% bodyfat I realise I need to eat MORE. A lot more.

This is not as important if you are either a genetically strong person, or if you naturally have a high muscle to fat ratio in an untrained state like many of the carribean peoples have.

Different people have different muscle to fat ratios, and I realise that if I am to have the same pure muscle mass as an untrained skinny jamaican kid then I need to weigh at least 50% more than that kid. And if my muscles do not have the genetic capacity for being recruited for maximal strength challenges then I need to gain EVEN more muscle mass as this kid to compensate.

Since reaching a 155lb BW @ 5'8 I have found it very difficult to make progress and have been through many sucessional deloads. I realise what I have t do now. I NEED to weigh closer to 200lb.

The only way to do this is with an insane calorific excess (I have been eating to max capacity for months with no weight gain)

[Mr.City]

So much discussion about body fat. I didn't realize this was a forum for beauty models.