Experienced bench presser shoulder pain

[Leeuwer]

Coach,

I registered specifically for this question.

Whenever I (flat) bench press, regardless of the amount of tucking the elbows I do, I get shoulder pain.

This doesn't change when I:

- Use a close grip

- Increase chest-bar distance(boards, pin presses, floor press, etc)

- Lower the bar even lower

I try to squeeze my upper back as much as possible and drive my heels through the floor, but nothing helps. The same goes for flat dumbbell benching.

Incline bench pressing with a wide grip and elbows flared feels great, however. Dipping and dumbbell pressing(incline)feel good as well. Pushups with most grips feel good. Overhead movements are good.

Now, a little background:

I weigh between 165 and 175 pounds and in competition I have done:

235 kilos squat(belt and knee wraps)
125 kilos bench press(wrist wraps)
250 kilos deadlift(belt)

I have been training for roughly 9-10 years.
These shoulder troubles when benching have always been there. I always substituted dipping and incline pressing, but later, when competing in powerlifting and joining a powerlifting club, I was thought the "proper" way to bench and it felt "somewhat" better, but never good.

I have never had any serious shoulder issues that could cause this feeling, outside of the typical small pains once or twice a year. In fact, my shoulders are the only joint outside of ankles that I haven't injured badly so far.

I own your book, as well as all the Westside Videos, Seminars and most of the EBooks.

I like benching, even though it is my worst lift, and feel I have a lot strength left in that lift. If I could only train it more.

Any help would be enormously appreciated.

Kind regards,

Bert

[Mark Rippetoe]

You didn't describe the pain or its location, and this sentence is confusing: I always substituted dipping and incline pressing, but later, when competing in powerlifting and joining a powerlifting club, I was thought the "proper" way to bench and it felt "somewhat" better, but never good. But as a general rule for non-specified shoulder pain in anterior-dominant bench pressers of long experience, I recommend the following: stop benching for 3 months and press 3x/week, then start back benching at a 1:2 ratio bench/press for 6 months, and then go back to 1:1 bench/press and maintain that ratio from now on.

[Leeuwer]

You didn't describe the pain or its location, and this sentence is confusing: I always substituted dipping and incline pressing, but later, when competing in powerlifting and joining a powerlifting club, I was thought the "proper" way to bench and it felt "somewhat" better, but never good. But as a general rule for non-specified shoulder pain in anterior-dominant bench pressers of long experience, I recommend the following: stop benching for 3 months and press 3x/week, then start back benching at a 1:2 ratio bench/press for 6 months, and then go back to 1:1 bench/press and maintain that ratio from now on.

Coach, thanks for your answer.

- The pain is located "inside" my shoulder. If I had to guess, I would say it is my rotator cuff. A theory I heard from a friend of mine is that the pain is caused by a very large acromion bone in the shoulder.

- Regarding that sentence: I was never learned how to bench properly until 2 years ago. Everyone at the gym did elbows-out benching, but I couldn't do this from day one due to shoulder pain. I therefore never benched on a flat bench(a wise decision)and did incline presses, dips and dumbbell presses instead.

- I am very certain my shoulder pain is NOT caused due to overuse of the bench press.(I even used dips and overhead presses as my main movements for 5 months this past year, and my bench press was still okay)

It is either a technical error or a physiological disadvantage.

- At the powerlifting club they thought me how to tuck my elbows properly(I was already pushing through the heels and squeezing the shoulder blades on my incline pressing, so I had an idea how to do this).

Your idea of focusing on the press sounds good.

Currently my schedule is like this(not using Starting Strength, I'm afraid):

Monday: Press + assistance
Wednesday: Squat + assistance
Friday: Incline Bench + assistance
Saturday: Deadlift + assistance

What do you think about doing incline instead of another press?
For the record, I also do different overhead presses during my assistance work on Friday.

[Mark Rippetoe]

You should read the book.

[Leeuwer]

You should read the book.

I have read the book Coach.
Please don't insult my intelligence by assuming I haven't read your book or taking into account the most obvious things.

I have a high opinion of you, that's why I'm asking this question here.

I don't use the Starting Strength program for many reasons. I do, however, read the instructions for all exercises regularly. I also own your DVD with these instructions.(as well as several other DVD's with bench press/squat/deadlift instructions ...)

[Mark Rippetoe]

I appreciate the kind words, but if I thought that inclines should be in a novice program I would have included them in it. And I don't know what you mean by "different overhead presses".

[Leeuwer]

I appreciate the kind words, but if I thought that inclines should be in a novice program I would have included them in it. And I don't know what you mean by "different overhead presses".

Hi Coach,

Well, first of all, I'm not a novice(if I may be so arrogant). I don't feel I qualify as "advanced" yet though.

That's one of the reasons I stated my stats and training time in the original post, just so we can weed out some beginner mistakes, like lack of proper form or simply no patience.(although I probably have the second one to spare as well ... )

By "different overhead presses" I'm referring to assistance work. I like doing standing kettlebell presses in my assistance, or sometimes handstand pushups. Again, I'm absolutely aware this is not in accordance to the program laid out in the book. I bought the book for its instruction on form for the squat, bench, deadlift, press and power clean first and foremost.

Now, I have re-read the book, just to be certain and have encountered your disclaimer in the bench press section: "This is not a book about powerlifting, and it is not designed to be used as such. The bench press as a competitive lift will probably be approached differently than herein described."

I also re-read the part about upper back tightness, which is probably where most of the problems occur. I feel I should "shrug the shoulders up" when setting up for the bench.

It may seem like I'm over analyzing this stuff, but I'd do nothing more willing than just lie down on a bench and press.

I will do some easy sets on the bench tonight to try to figure out where my problem is once more, focusing on my upper and lower back.