Squat Form Check

[ffriday]

Any feedback is much appreciated.
What assistance work can I do to for that sticking point?
I know my walk out is lame... I've corrected that problem.
Thank you in advance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=354xd8xNyGo

[Mark Rippetoe]

You're shoving your ass back instead of up. Knees are coming back, opening the knee angle and using up the knee-extension function of the quads at the bottom, so that they can't kick in when you need them. This is because your hamstrings didn't hold the knee angle closed as your hips drove up. Weird, but the hamstrings are not only extending the hips up out of the bottom but they are also controlling your knee angle isometrically at the same time. Look at the video to see this, and think about driving straight up without sliding back. Your singles at 245-255 mean that you should practice this at about 215 x 5.

[Polynomial]

You get an award for the most fashionable pants worn at the gym. And with VS shoes, too!

Is your bodyweight really ~124?

[ffriday]

Mr. Rippetoe,
Thank you for the feedback. I have all your books, and am a huge fan of your training techniques. I've been told I have a weird looking squat. I will work on thinking ass up (instead of back) and I will try to fire up that quad more. I have never tried 215 for 5, I will give it a shot.

Polynomial,
Yep, that day I was really 124lbs. I know the pants add about 20lbs, lol. I compete raw in the USAPL in the 123's.

I train out of the Press Gym in Minnesota. Dan Stock is the owner, he is also the founder of Zubaz. The pants I have on are the new lady cut zubaz "Zhinkas".

[stronger]

good Lord you're strong

[JPC]

Mark, I've been having a discussion about the causes of this good morning type squat elsewhere on this forum. I do this too but I have a different idea about the cause of it. When my squats get heavy, they look just like the above video (minus the cool pants). The hips move back, knee extension takes place early with less upward movement of the bar. When the weights are lighter I don't have that problem. This is my body trying to get in the strongest position to lift the weight. My idea is that the quads are the weak link that causes this. If I try to maintain proper form on the same weight, I can't complete the rep. The quads can't do their job of lifting the weight, so they extend early without as much lifting of the weight, causing a more acute back angle, then the much stronger hip extension takes over and does most of the lifting. Make sense? Maybe she is simply attepting weights her quads aren't strong enough to handle, but her stronger glutes, hams can.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I disagree. You see the same thing in the deadlift, when the pull starts and the knees extend, the ass comes up, and the bar doesn't move. Had the back angle been maintained, the knee extension would have contributed to the load being moved, right? Hamstrings anchor the back angle at their proximal attachment on the pelvis. By your analysis, when the ass come up, this is the body's way of positioning itself to use it's strongest muscles... the hamstrings, not the quads? The quads are in their strongest position at the knee angle the vast majority of people demonstrate at the start of the deadlift, a little more open than 90 degrees. It would be surprising if the hamstrings were actually stronger than the quads, especially in this position. And in fact what I see is that, when the situation is explained to the lifter and the hamstrings are cued to "tighten up" before the pull starts (or perhaps the "chest up" cue is given here), the back angle is maintained and the knees push the bar away from the floor. The problem was that the hamstrings' isometric job of anchoring the ass so the quads can work wasn't getting done, and the cue activated this function.

Now, you'll say that since the hamstrings can do the whole thing by themselves without the help of the quads -- since that is what they have to do when the knees extend and the bar doesn't move -- they are strong enough to perhaps qualify as your strongest muscles, and that is why your form is the way it is. And it is true that most people can SLDL a large % of their deadlift. But nobody sets records that way, and this is because more muscles are always stronger than fewer muscles. The real cure is to learn how to use the hamstrings ion their proper function off the floor: isometric first, and then grading into hip extensors as the bar goes up. The squat must be fixed the same way: keep the chest up (maintain the back angle constant), drive the hips up and not back, and let the hamstrings help the quads work.

[JLascek]

Rip, you don't have to approve this post.

I see how the OP is driving her ass back instead of up, but...

Does she have an issue of keeping her knees too far back to an extent in which it doesn't contribute to the hip drive? (Like the girl from Kilgore's class that was squatting on Wednesday)

In other words, does she need to allow her knees to come forward a bit in the beginning of the descent (a la "terribly useful block of wood")?

She also doesn't appear to be looking down.

[JPC]

Mark I understand your point about the deadlift. But I'm specifically talking about the squat. In the hole the knee angle is more acute than 90 degrees and therefore the quads are not in their strongest position. Wouldn't it be possible that some people are able to lift more by letting the knee angle open up to a stronger position before the weight is moved as much, IF their glutes and hams are strong enough to handle the disadvantage it places on them? Of course I'm not saying this is advisable, just trying to explain why it happens only on heavy attempts for some people. I know for myself, when I try to keep the back angle the same I can't lift the same weights I can if I allow what we are talking about. On the deadlift its different, I'm stronger with "proper" form, because the balance between the knee and hip angle is optimal for me. It's telling, those angles in the start position of the deadlift are roughly the same angles my body wants to get to in the squat to do most of the bar lifting.

[JasonM]

If you watch closely, it looks like she is pinching her knees together on the concentric. Watch her knees and then watch her pants legs on her shoes, especially on the heaviest singles.