Did some high-bar... Damn!

[Bloodninja666]

Ive decided to devote some time to learning high bar squats, mainly as a change of pace after hitting a wall on low-bar Texas Method. Will be nice to get back into some linear progression.

Here are some impressions after my first workout:

-Bar position is very uncomfortable, to the point of being painful. I tried a few different positions, and am still not convinced Ive found a sweetspot. With the bar too high, I feel like the damn thing is resting on my spine. A little lower and my traps were getting crushed, but I guess that's the nature of the lift? Hopefully one gets used to it.

-I am a bit weaker on this lift than I would have expected. A challenging work set was about 75% of a comparable low-bar set. Does this jive with anyone who's tried both? I thought I would be moving more weight than this. Honestly, the discomfort of the bar on my shoulders may have been limiting me a bit.

-These are very easy on the lower-back. My lower back has been getting wrecked by LLBS lately, so this is nice. I do worry the lack of low-back work could stall deadlift progression. I may need to add goodmornings to my programming...

-Knees felt just fine throughout the sets. I was a little worried how they would feel as Ive had some meniscus issues in the past year.



Im not 100% convinced I am doing these rights. Have any of you come across any good online resources for learning high bar?

[Greg C]

Yeah, sounds about right.

Took me a few workouts to get used to the difference in positioning, and it has been more forgiving on the lower back (good since I am working to recoup some sciatica issues). No online resources though, just my Everett Book on Oly stuff.

[blowdpanis]

Yah, this is probably about right.

I did some high bar squats myself today after not really training them in a while, and my strength was pretty well and fucked. My experience to date is high bar squats probably transfer better to low bar than vice versa, though low bars seem to have a more immediate impact on deadlifts. It's kind of a weird relationship, but this has seemed generally true.

[Bahadur]

Im not 100% convinced I am doing these rights. Have any of you come across any good online resources for learning high bar?

Squat Rx I think is exclusively devoted to high-bar.

[OCG]

My theory: because you do not squat high bar, your high bar form sucks and the movement feels weird. People really need to stop over thinking this.

The bar position hurts because you are not used to it and are possibly putting it in the wrong position. If you lay off the low bar squats for long enough the position will hurt when you come back to it. "High bar" isn't actually that high. If the bar contacts anything but muscle, it's in the wrong position.

[Paul Sousa]

My theory: because you do not squat high bar, your high bar form sucks and the movement feels weird. People really need to stop over thinking this.

The bar position hurts because you are not used to it and are possibly putting it in the wrong position. If you lay off the low bar squats for long enough the position will hurt when you come back to it. "High bar" isn't actually that high. If the bar contacts anything but muscle, it's in the wrong position.

I agree somewhat with this. In terms of technique I spent almost 2 years sucking at low bar and when I switched to high bar it came natural. I agree completely though with the bar placement. I know I have the bar in the right spot with high bar when it is in contact with my traps and the tops of my delts.

In terms of impact on deadlift, I actually think my progress will be better long term with high bar since it doesn't hit the PC as hard as low bar. I think part of my issue with low bar was my low back was always fried between doing them and pulling and it kept impacting my techinque, and thus progress with the low bar squat.

[DV]

I agree with OGC and BP (if that is possible?). There's a thread by Pendlay on some forum I read a while back, where he said something similar: Hibar has great carryover to Lowbar - not vice versa. You can lift more with Lowbar. Lowbar has good carryover to pulls from the floor. Dr. Hatfield recommended hi-bar. I think that was the jist of it.

FWIW my lumbar/pelvis suffered on hibar, and has little problems with lowbar. My elbows/shoulders are a different matter...

In the end I do think people need to not "overthink" it, as OGC said - do whichever one works the best for you, and given the choice I'd go for lowbar, as I think Mark is right that it quite simply allows you to work more muscle.

EDIT: And I believe squatRX teaches the Lowbar position, but it's been awhile since I checked it out.

[dewasiuk]

I don't want anyone to throw rocks at me here, but I actually find the high bar squat more comfortable for me. I just can't find a damn sweet spot for the low bar

[blowdpanis]

I don't want anyone to throw rocks at me here, but I actually find the high bar squat more comfortable for me. I just can't find a damn sweet spot for the low bar

I don't think anybody would jump on you for this opinion, I generally find high bars easier to both teach and perform.

I think the compromise works sort of like this...

The high bar position is inherently weaker, in that it necessitates being comparatively more upright, but is also inherently more stable, since it takes less muscular effort to maintain that position. Gravity kind of just keeps it up there, and there's less of a tendency for upper back fatigue late in a high bar set than low bar, which helps to keep high bar squats from turning into GM-y nightmares, particularly if you're shooting for a lot of reps (20 rep breathing squats done low bar are just asking for trouble, imho, for example).

High bar squats also tend to be comparatively more ROM than low bar, such that the argument of low bar using "more muscle," and thus being superior, is no more logical than suggesting wide stance power squats being superior to narrower stance low bar squats, in that you're comparing apples and oranges, since it's not only how much weight you move, but how much ROM you move it through. Part of the reason for this is that, in my opinion/experience, high bar is easier to pull off with a narrower stance, whereas, at least for a lot of people, too narrow a stance in low bar tends to lead to a very segmented, GM-y type rep that just doesn't happen the same way with high bar squats. Of course, some people can use a fairly narrow low bar stance and do very well with it, making this comparison more difficult (the infamous Zach comes to mind, he goes pretty narrow with a lot of ROM for a low bar squatter).

I think what it boils down to, honestly, is a matter of preference - I honestly believe that, when exposed to both types of squats, trainees tend to gravitate towards one or the other, for a variety of reasons, and I'm guessing anthropometry figures in there. I have a friend who squats low bar more naturally than possibly anybody I've ever seen (Cheech on this board), whereas I've squatted low bar for years and the movement still feels a little awkward to me. On the flipside, I've shown him how to do high bar squats, and he finds THAT awkward, whereas I actually find it more natural. There's really no hard and fast rules one can develop for what's "better," honestly, and I sincerely believe a lot of it comes down to preference, and this can only be an educated decision made through experience, despite all the abstract, theoretical arguments for either type's superiority.

[Steve Hill]

I have been know to high-bar squat...