Help with Deadlift... (Questiong about belt use/overtraining/injury)

[TravisHenson777]

Hey guys, I've posted on here twice and I'm still having a ton of trouble with the Deadlift. My squat failed at 340 (3x5) and I've since dropped to 90% and worked back up to 315.

My deadlift was at 315 for a set of 5, but this didn't include warmup, and eventually I hit a wall.

I was told by a member of these boards that I should probably deload my deadlift, and work back up while incorporating the SS-recommended warmup sets.

Since I have dropped down, my deadlift has been total crap and my back feels EXTREMELY weak. I haven't been able to pull anything even close to 315 without feeling a lot of soreness and pain. At the time I dropped my deadlift down, I also started wearing a belt during my heaviest squat working-sets.

I tried to deadlift today and I did 135 for 2 sets of 5, and then attempted 185 for 5 reps and couldn't even complete 2 of them. To make it even worse, I was pulling them while they were stacked on top of two 25 lb plates (because of hamstring inflexibility) and I STILL couldn't even get them! They felt crazy heavy!!

My question is: do you think my belt has totally killed my spinal erector strength, or am I injured/overtraining? I only use the belt on my heaviest squat sets, and not at all on my deadlift sets, but then again, if you're doing your heavy sets with a belt and your deadlift is really suffering, there's not much low-back training. I've contemplated adding in back extensions, but I feel like the wimpy 135# deads are KILLING my low-back and the back-exts my be overkill. I've watched tons of form videos and read the book over and over and over. I did have an issue of back-rounding, but I've done everything I can possibly do to eliminate this problem and I feel like something else must be wrong.

PS. for the past several workouts I've been doing deads trying to get them back up to a respectable number- maybe I'm overtraining them?

My plan of action at this point is to just rest my back for the next week and then give it a go again when I feel fresh. Please, any input would be awesome.

[Adam Skillin]

For the past several workouts, you've been doing 135# deadlifts and you think they've overtrained you?

[Meshuggah]

I've got 99 problems, but Deadlifts aren't one of them. I don't know how your lower back could be overtrained with 135.

[kessg]

i looked at your DL form check video. it almost looks you are squatting with a bar in your hands. perhaps that's why it's so hard.

some in-person coaching may be useful.

the belt does not hinder your strength at all.

[elVarouza]

Based on how your deadlift looks from your form check threads I'd say the weight feels heavy because you're indecisive as to the correct form and your form could use some work. I'd get rid of the belt for now and focus on getting in the proper starting position. I don't think your back is weak at all (you can squat 320 for 3x5); I think you need to dial in your form. Stop worrying about strengthening your lower back and show us some deadlift form videos. Based on your form checks my guess is your deadlift stance is slightly off resulting in you not being able to extend your back. I've had success in a few cases by telling people to narrow their stance and point their toes out slightly while pushing the knees out. This tends to get the thighs out of the way of the stomach enabling better back extension.

[BareSteel]

Take a step back here. elVarouza has some excellent points.

I don't think your erectors suddenly got weak. I think you have a technique issue or a mental block. You may need some time away from the pull to reset your approach, not because the weight has you beat down.

[TravisHenson777]

Hey guys,

As always, thanks for the advice and willingness to help out.

As I said, I have went through so much trouble to ensure correct form, I just don't see what I could be doing so wrong. (Although I am clearly doing something.)

I have a few videos that you can watch at: http://www.youtube.com/user/TravisHe...?feature=watch.

My approach/setup is something like the following:

1.)Approach the bar and immediately "cut the feet in half". (The ENTIRE foot, not just the forefoot)

2.)Assume a narrow stance (approx. vertical jump width apart) that is more narrow than you'd like it to be, with toes pointed out more than you'd like them to be.

3.)Don't lower the hips or move the bar, but assume your grip (hook grip in my case)

4.)Bring knees forward until shins touch the bar while NOT MOVING THE BAR and not bringing the hips down.

5.)Chest up, contract the back HARD, and let the upper-back wave of extension follow all the way down to the lumbar while keeping the head/neck in natural anatomical position.

6.)All the while, ensure that scapulas are over the bar and that shoulders are just in front of the bar and that the BAR DOESN'T MOVE

7.)"Pull the slack out of the bar", and drag up the shins/thighs- "show your chest" at the top with solid lockout of the knees

8.)reverse, (while ensure that knees don't come forward before the bar passes them and creates a larger moment arm.

Am I missing anything? I'm sure that I have the process down fairly good, but maybe I'm not practicing it correctly? Maybe I'm adding in something else?

I can post some more videos if you guys think that might help, just tell me what angle/weight would work better to help you help me. (I would've posted this question to technique, but I didn't wanna bother those guys anymore, especially Baresteel, who I'm sure is sick of my deadlift woes. lol)

thanks again.

[TravisHenson777]

Also, I agree- I didn't think that I would lose all my low-back strength just from wearing a belt on my heavy squats, but I wasn't sure. Just for clarification, I don't use a belt on my deadlift, only the squat. For some reason though, maybe injury, my deadlift has been extremely painful, whereas before I had no relatively no pain whatsoever when pulling (for example) 305.

[kessg]

Your dec 4 video still looks like a partial squat with the bar in your hands (your 'soft lock out' is a symptom of this I think). You seen to be trying to lift the bar with your arms off the floor, instead of pushing the floor away with your legs. I also see your butt going up and *down* and *up* during the pull, which should not be happening.

I'm a much smaller person and I'm doing 185 here: http://youtu.be/YCCkM8q712Q

I recommend in-person coaching / consultation to get your DL form ironed out. Something is off.

[TravisHenson777]

Kessg,

Yes, I realize that my deadlift should be much higher considering my bodyweight and even my strength, but something seems to be off when I perform it.

In the past, I pulled 305 for a 1rm before I even started Starting Strength, which I know isn't impressive, but I haven't even been able to pull anything close to that since. I feel like I may have tweaked my back, but when I rest it for a few days it feels great again until I start trying to build my deadlift back up by working it every workout.

How can I receive this consultation that you've recommended? I don't think a seminar is in the budget for me at this time, although I would love to do some in the future.