Whee, I'm back for another squat form check

[Misery]

So I received lots of comments before on both my knees and squatting, and I've made some adjustments. First of all, about my knees, I was worried that I might be at risk for needing surgery for them, but let me describe them.

There is only a dull, slight pain in my left knee, and it clicks whenever I tense up my quad and bend my knee. My right knee has very little to no pain, but through some stretches of the day, it'll click or "pop", but only when I sort of shove my knee back as I walk or when I keep my foot down and pivot.

I've done all sorts of rehab from wall sits to stretch band exercises to foam rolling to weighted leg raises to TKEs to cycling to single leg squats. I'm also on Animal Flex.

I used to experience slight pain in my left knee going down the stairs and my right ankle used to pop. Now neither happens. My right knee used to pop frequently, as mentioned above, but now I have to actually try to get it to pop. My left knee still has a dull pain, but I think that's improving. I also used to get sharp pain in either knee whenever I got into lunge position; there's no such thing now.

So based on this description, am I on the right track to recovery and is it safe to continue squatting? Can you make any guesses as to what's the likely explanation behind my knees?

But this is primarily a squat topic, so let me get to that. First my video (and there's plenty of less flattering videos in my profile)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hBtzm88FyU

Now, critique that as you will, because I have no idea what the problem could possibly be. It's worth noting the knee issues DEFINITELY stemmed from my poor squat form, or rather, it wasn't poor but there was something off that nearly injured my knees. Rippe really had no technical critiques for me.

Three questions:

1. I've seen very reputable sources say to lead with the knees and other reputable sources say lead with the hips. Which is more conducive to a proper squat? Do I bend my knees and let my hips take me down, or do I just sit back (What I've done for months)

2. When do I try to spread the floor? Should this be done as soon as I reach the bottom of my squat?

3. Is there ANYTHING you could see in this video that would contribute to knee problems, or are my knee problems just lingering issues from my previous form issues and my form is currently fine; I just have to continue my rehab.

I guess it's worth mentioning I did not try to spread the floor in this video, but I am doing so now. I'm really starting to think not doing so is what has led to my knee injuries.

[confuzzl3don3]

Re to 1 - i always thought hips and knees were meant to break simultaneously. In your vid it looks you are leaning towards leading with the hips. Not saying this is the cause of the knee pain but merely pointing it out as an observation. I'd like to hear what others say.

[Tom Campitelli]

Three questions:

1. I've seen very reputable sources say to lead with the knees and other reputable sources say lead with the hips. Which is more conducive to a proper squat? Do I bend my knees and let my hips take me down, or do I just sit back (What I've done for months)

2. When do I try to spread the floor? Should this be done as soon as I reach the bottom of my squat?

3. Is there ANYTHING you could see in this video that would contribute to knee problems, or are my knee problems just lingering issues from my previous form issues and my form is currently fine; I just have to continue my rehab.

I guess it's worth mentioning I did not try to spread the floor in this video, but I am doing so now. I'm really starting to think not doing so is what has led to my knee injuries.

For question one, I recommend breaking with the hips first, then the knees. It is subtle, but you send the hips back first (maybe half an inch of travel) to get the hamstrings and glutes to engage. It sometimes helps to actively tighten the glutes prior to doing this, although you'll find you don't need to after some practice. To an outside observer, it looks like everything moves at once, but a slight bias for the hips puts the posterior chain under tension before loading the patellar tendon. If you have sore knees, this is a good thing to do. Once the hips and knees break, you sit back as normal. Once again, this is a subtle movement, not something pronounced.

Spreading the floor is not something you actively need to do and is probably more of a cue for a wider stance squat, or a box squat. Then again, if it helps you, there's nothing wrong with it either.

Not to get on your case here, but your videos do not lend themselves well to analysis. The plates obscure you almost entirely throughout the movement in the one you linked above. Here are some ideas on filming squats:

http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=16744

I am glad to hear that your knees are improving, but I don't think anyone here could tell you that it is 100% safe to continue squatting. That said, lots of people here squat and their knees are strong and stable because of it. Clicking and popping in the knee joint is not necessarily a problem unless it is accompanied by pain. I believe you mentioned previously that you had already seen doctors about this, but it sounds like you are already handling your rehab well. You have more insights on to what you can tolerate and what works for you than any third party.

[Misery]

Well I ran some vert short trial runs today, and although a terrible headache didn't help, really had no motivation today for my lifts, mainly because I think my squats went so terribly. I'll get a competently recorded video up this Wednesday, but this time, my knees actually popped at the bottom of my squat...which is a first honestly. I stopped immediately, and now I'm truly puzzled.

So I'll work on getting a good video up, so people can actually see what I'm doing. Those stupid safety bars kind of make things difficult.

But thanks for the tips on sitting back into the squat. One last question: Is it possible to sit back entirely too much or shove your knees out too much?

[Tom Campitelli]

One last question: Is it possible to sit back entirely too much or shove your knees out too much?

Yes it is.

[Misery]

Yes it is.

Well, this isn't an ideal video, as my form has changed a bit since then, but here's a shot from behind that I took awhile ago for Rippe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OOCVBPD2uU

I know there's two problems with this older video already. The knees cave in a bit and my stance may be a bit too wide.

Is there anything else you can see from this video?

Also, I went to physical therapy today, and much to my relief, we determined I definitely don't have a meniscus tear. None of the movement tests I did caused me any pain whatsoever, however, from my squatting, it seems my knees are hyperextended and have 15-20 extra degrees of motion.

Obviously...this leaves me a bit dubious about whether to continue squatting or just focus on the rehab.

A couple more questions.

1. Should I try to squat through this?
2. What should I replace the squat with if I can't? I've got GHRs in mind, but can't think of anything good for the quad
And one more question: What would you guys do to rehab this type of almost injury