squats and hormonal response

[Bleve]

G'day Rip,
Forgive me if I didn't find this with search, I looked!

One of the big benefits of the squat as performed in the SS program and PPST is the hormonal disturbance it triggers - you make this point frequently and use it to justify the priority of the squat over the deadlift etc. A rough paraphrase is "squats improve everything else as well". Our sport is triple extensions (unilateral) at a range of velocities with a history of use of exogenous hormones (illegally) amongst the champions - ie: the strongest ones tend to win the most.

How is this hormonal disturbance measured? Ie: how do you know squats are the most optimal way (so far) to bump up the body's endocrine system to do the job? As part of an overall athlete training program in a WADA compliant sport this is a biggie for us, any legal way we can trick the body into producing more testosterone and GH is good! I've got lots of anecdotal support for it (and am not questioning it or your assertion!) but nothing more than that. That's enough for me, but not enough to influence my superiors here. If I want to take it up with the eggheads at our local state and national sports institute to influence their strength program, do you have any handy ammunition? Should I ask Lon? I've got one of his grad students here at our national track cycling championships this week and I'm slowly grilling him for info, can you shine light on this?

Thank you

[Mark Rippetoe]

I have not measured anything that involves blood or urine. Lon would be the guy to ask, or Becky Kudrna or Michael Hartmann, his grad students.

[Eric K]

I have not measured anything that involves blood or urine...

Oh, come on! What's the fun in that? I thought you were running a gym over there...

[Jeffrey]

I've never seen any evidence that heavy lifting increases testosterone production in any appreciable way. In fact, heavy lifting can temporarily crush your blood levels of testosterone (presumably by encouraging test to bind to androgen receptors). This is one reason exogenous test is so helpful for athletes.

Increasing your test production is incredibly difficult. At best you can stop doing shit that interferes with it or you can lose weight(and thus blood volume) and thus increase your blood concentration of testosterone.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Where did you look for evidence? First, the studies are inconclusive at best, yielding highly variable results. Second, your comment suggests you think a decrease in blood test due to androgen receptor binding is a negative thing. Activating the androgen receptors is the entire reason you want test around. Blood levels are accessible for measurement of test levels, but are not equivalent to androgen receptor activation or to testosterone production. If blood levels drop, this may be a signal that drives the subsequent rebound seen in some studies.

[Carlos Daniel]

The papers I've seen around say that the systemic hormonal response from lifting is mostly irrelevant to hypertrophy or strength improvement, at least in the populations that were studied (untrained people). This is different from what a advanced lifter might experience, as some other papers show, some of them with Lon as one of the authors. There are some problems with those papers, as some of them use leg presses, others use Nautilus circuit training, but on the other hand, all of them elicit a hormonal response

Now, even if the hormonal response to training is irrelevant to novices, that doesn't mean squats are not a good exercise, or that they could be replaced by leg extensions and curls, or that they are irrelevant to advanced trainees.

[Konstantinos Kavos]

After having a bit of a scare about my testosterone levels a while back, I have come to believe that at least in males my age (30s) that working out has less effect on your levels than some other factors, (I don't know what they are).

For example, there are periods when, after a strenuous workout, finding the energy and will for a good round of vigorous sex is almost impossible. This effect can last even till the following day.

On the other hand, there are some periods, like now, when I can do heavy (for me) squats and presses and deadlifts and then jump my wife with boundless enthusiasm immediately afterwards, which makes her happy even if I am stinky and sweaty. I also have a better mood, better appetite, and so on.

I hate to say that those other factors are things like general everyday stress levels, because that's the bullshit excuse doctors use when they don't know what is wrong with you but it's not life threatening.

My point, I think, is to just squat and not worry about the hormonal response.

[Jeffrey]

Where did you look for evidence? First, the studies are inconclusive at best, yielding highly variable results.

Yeah, I've read some papers in the public endocrinology journals and they mostly suck. I just haven't even seen anecdotal evidence that anyone has increased their testosterone production via heavy weightlifting.

Second, your comment suggests you think a decrease in blood test due to androgen receptor binding is a negative thing. Activating the androgen receptors is the entire reason you want test around. Blood levels are accessible for measurement of test levels, but are not equivalent to androgen receptor activation or to testosterone production. If blood levels drop, this may be a signal that drives the subsequent rebound seen in some studies.

Yeah, test binding to androgen receptors in the muscle is positive for growth. Also, the drop in blood levels should lead to signals from the hypothalami-pituitary-gonadal axis to increase test production and restore homeostasis. So, technically this means that overall testosterone production is higher in the presence of weightlifting, but this is really just another way of saying that weightlifting is good for muscle growth. However, the other benefits of testosterone (libido, mood, aggression, blah blah blah) due to binding in androgen receptors in non muscle tissue would not be increased by heavy lifting. If anything, lifting would have negative effects because it temporarily lowers the availability of testosterone for androgen receptors until the rebound. So, men should look elsewhere for the fountain of youth.

[Gunnhild Bruno]

If anything, lifting would have negative effects because it temporarily lowers the availability of testosterone for androgen receptors until the rebound. So, men should look elsewhere for the fountain of youth.

And what makes you so sure that testosterone is the only factor in graceful aging? Or the only hormone affected by weightlifting? Even if you’re right about test. (whereas I tend to trust Mark, who has seen countless examples of the effects of weightlifting on trainees’ overall quality of life while most researchers have seen few if any), you’ve got some serious blinders on.

[Jeffrey]

And what makes you so sure that testosterone is the only factor in graceful aging? Or the only hormone affected by weightlifting? Even if you’re right about test. (whereas I tend to trust Mark, who has seen countless examples of the effects of weightlifting on trainees’ overall quality of life while most researchers have seen few if any), you’ve got some serious blinders on.

Wtf are you talking about? Where do I mention anything about overall quality of life? Everything I wrote is discussing testosterone and testosterone only. There are numerous people who fantasize that they're gonna permanently raise their circulating test with lifting and therefore increase their libido, improve their mood, etc. This is what I am addressing.