I concur. As a personal trainer myself it is sometimes difficult to refrain from tossing all the instructions at a new trainee but it has to be done for progress to continue.
Guys, I'm not trying to be a dick, first of all. But I do want to say a thing or two generally about some of the form critiques that I've seen here.
If you've ever attended one of Rip's seminars or watched his DVD, he talks a bit about distinguishing first-order form problems from peripheral ones. First-order problems should be addressed first, even though other problems might exist. Yes, it's a coach's responsibility to make sure that the trainee has the proper mental model in place before he or she attempts the exercise(s) in question. However, when learning a new movement, the trainee simply cannot focus on every form issue at once.
Take the squat as an example. If I have a trainee who isn't hitting proper depth and isn't gripping the bar correctly, I'm going to have the trainee focus on the depth issue first before addressing the grip (if I've taken the trainee through the proper learning progression, he or she KNOWS the proper way to grip but hasn't yet made it a habit). The grip, in this case, is the peripheral matter.
Getting to the point, if someone posts a video on the board, please try to focus on the first-order issues. Tossing out a million and one criticisms all at once will lead to further problems. The peripheral matters can be worked out later.
Secondly, those who have had the luxury to coach a good number of people for anything longer than, say, just a few months will understand my next point. Rip has a quote: the perfect is the enemy of the good. Recently, I've witnessed a lot folks hammering on itty-bitty hiccups in form that, I guarantee you, will not amount to anything in that trainee's (hopefully) long career. Small knee wobbles, a tiny bit of "butt wink," a minute bit of knee-slide forward at the bottom of one or two reps, will not amount to much in the long run. If I were to stop my trainees every time some little hiccup cropped up or, worse, suggested that they reduce the weight each time, then none of my trainees would have approached the level that they're at now.
I'm speaking from my own personal training experience, also. There was a time a while back when I would suffer paralysis by analysis every time that I trained because I fretted over every little hiccup or detail.
Only firsthand experience training a lot of folks can teach you when a "hiccup" is more than just a hiccup and should be corrected. All I'm asking is that you please be mindful of this when you're offering advice over the internet, especially those of you who aren't a trainer or coach and haven't had the opportunities to instruct that others here have.
Sincerely,
Stacey
EDIT: 1.18.09
New guys, when somebody posts a form check video, it is not helpful for you to spout every cue you know from Starting Strength at the person posting. Cues should address specific problems. It's great that everyone wants to contribute, but don't waste everyone's time with overly general advice. Furthermore, if you're not really sure what the problem is, don't respond by guessing what the problem might be, then throwing random cues at the problem hoping that one of them will "stick."
-S.
Last edited by nisora33; 01-18-2010 at 01:02 PM.
I concur. As a personal trainer myself it is sometimes difficult to refrain from tossing all the instructions at a new trainee but it has to be done for progress to continue.
great post.
i wish we had some sort of rating system for posters or some designation if they are a coach.
too often a solid piece of coaching from someone who knows his shit get's drowned out by the form-nit minutia from non-experts. and the poor OP doesn't know enough to separate wheat from chaff.
And again, I'm not trying to insult anyone here. I know everyone here is well-meaning, and the collective attitude is one of support and interest in helping others grow. But I thought these things should be pointed out and kept in mind going forward.
Likewise, if I say something waaaayy off base about something, I fully expect everyone here to call me out on my shit. You're helping me learn, and I'm helping you.
-S.
I can't agree more. FAR too much critical minutiae and very little reinforcement of what's right.
Ironically lot of these critiques are regurgitated by people with 185# squats who just finished the book last week. I don't have a big squat myself, but I know how to stay in my lane.
Good post stacey
I think one of the pitfalls that is easy to fall into with giving advice over a forum is, reading someones post and believing the advice they are asking for is addressed solely to you (me) to answer. Then again if no one answers your questions it can seem like a lonely place. Its a delicate balance I guess.
On another point I have noticed that trying to convey coaching in a concise and clear written form is an art to itself. Instructions or advice that makes perfect sense when being typed will often read slightly different to someone else.
I like to think this helps explain why so many people that say they have read the SS chapter on squats, still do a squat that looks nothing like what it should. They interpret Rip's words in their own brains and once in there, well, with some people who knows what will come out.
Lurker for some time now but first post so this may mean squat ! How about if they could include after your board status and idication that you had completed either the crossfit cert. or the new Starting Strength cert. with that info. E.G : Senior Member - SS Cert. or Just Rip Certified for either .
That's a possibility, steelerfan. That would have to be up to the mods, though.
The only draw back to that might be it could breed an atmosphere or feeling of elitism among some. I don't know, we all seem like relatively good boy and girls here, however
-S.
I don't think that would change the quality of the advice offered, and I'd be willing to bet that some smart and experienced guys around here with a lot to offer have been to neither cert.
JMO, of course, but I don't think it's a good idea to have credentials listed here. There are plenty of 'coaches' and 'trainers' who know little and amateur 'novices' who know much. This is a relatively new forum, but that kinda stuff will be obvious over time. And this is a forum, not a Q&A for the 'qualified'.
I do agree, however, on the level of minutae that gets offered as critique. I mean people point out Konstantinov's upper back rounding when he pulls 939#. C'mon.