Squat Form - Front hip pain

[johnnybn]

Had this in "Technique" but was advised to move here by BareSteel... Reposting with vids and updates:

Read SS cover to cover and started the beginner program about three weeks ago. My background:

Age 31
6'1" 183lbs (up 16lbs since starting)
No competitive sports background, have done random crossfit type training over the past two years, including p90X, Crossfit, bodyweight exercises, etc... No professional strength training.

I'm having lots of trouble with pain in my front hips (especially left) area when squatting (and now when standing up from sitting, bending down to pick up a toy, etc). I've been checking form since the start with mirrors/video, and my depth is suffering due to the pain. I've been foam rolling this and stretching, not too much help. I'm extremely flexible - I can go all the way down in a squat stretch, 8-12" past feet in a hammy stretch, etc. However, any attempt at going deep in a squat results in the hip pain (unless its unweighted).

I've posted several vids in the original thread found here:

http://startingstrength.com/resource...t=47575&page=1

Reposting last few:

190lbs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idOimMGEMHg

195lbs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op4Z_uc-eYk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWSljjhY12c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R51B4padEjc

200lbs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMhwrsc-Wxo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KpjRjUjk0E

Today I worked on form only at low weights - max'd at 135lbs. Did lots of sets trying to "find my swing". Looking for some cue to cut out the hip pain. The 200lbs set I posted above resulted in me doing a regimen of Ibuprofen all weekend to try and get back in shape for today's workout. I may have stumbled onto a cue that "may?" help - I focused on keeping my weight on the outside of my feet - I believe this kept my knees more in line over my toes and prevented my hip musculature from being impinged.

Some questions:

1) is this a bad/dangerous cue?
2) if I can't get this corrected, am I better off quitting and "becoming a runner" as Mark would say? Or am I better off doing squats with partial depth?
3) I'm planning on using Weds as a "ramp up" day, much like a beginner learning for the first time. I'm going to end up on light weight again most likely - prob 140-145lbs. My question is whether I'm going to end up having imbalance problems setting my squat so far below my current deadlift level (245lbs)?

[Paul Horn]

Johnny, that's a long email and I'm trying to get through our growing backlog so I just skimmed. I did watch your set at 200. It's not pretty, dude. You are unable to keep your knees out as you drive out of the bottom, and you are driving your hips back and up instead of straight up. It just looks too damn heavy for you to do it correctly. Take weight off and learn to do it perfectly before you go up. I suggest searching this board for info on using a TUBOW. I don't know why you have hip pain, but your current squat form might have something to do with it. Forget about any other cues until you learn "knees out." Feel free to post again and we'll go from there.

[johnnybn]

Thanks Paul. Past couple of workouts I've busted it down to the empty bar and added in 10lb increments until form suffered. I think my problem now is that even correct form is hurting the front hips. I'm on a two week cruise at the end of next week - perhaps that will be a welcome break...

I bought Mark's DVD companion to SS in an attempt to see him coach in person and perhaps glean some new angle or understanding. Being an avid golfer, I'm used to "self coaching" my swing and making my own adjustments. At this point, from feedback I've had here and on video, it seems the knee position is a big part of the problem - along with the hips moving back.

My (grossly uneducated) guess at the hip pain is that they're being impinged because my back angle is too horizontal, my knees aren't forward enough and I push back out of the hole. I can get all the way down in the squat stretch, but I know for sure my knees are much further forward with no load. Mark would probably tell me to "cut it off" if I applied the same depth I have in the stretch to the loaded squat. I'm uploading two of the vids from my work today.

185lbs front
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzTEgcx68EY

165lbs side
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_spHK_VgTo

Thanks again for your help!

[johnnybn]

Thanks Paul. The past two workouts I've busted it down to the empty bar and worked my way up until the form suffered. The problem at this point (I think) is that the hips hurt even with correct form...

I bought Mark's companion DVD to SS in order to see him coach live and try to glean some new angle or understanding. It seemed from the videos that the people had their knees a lot more forward than I do, their backs were more vertical and he didn't want people pulling their knees back out of the hole.

My uneducated guess at my problem is that my back is too horizontal (at heavy load), my knees are too far back and, as you said, I'm coming backwards out of the hole instead of up. I don't think its a flexibility issue - I can get all the way down in the stretch and then some...

I'm posting a couple of vids from today's workout. I'm going on a two week cruise at the end of next week, perhaps that will be a good respite for my hips...

165 Side
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_spHK_VgTo

185 Front
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzTEgcx68EY

Thanks again!

[Paul Horn]

It's not a flexibility issue. It's a "knees out" issue. You are trying to get depth by leaning over. Keep your chest up, shove your knees out and sit back into the bottom. Keep your knees out and your chest up as you drive out of the hole. That does not mean LIFT your chest, just don't lean over anymore. Drive your hips up.

[johnnybn]

It's not a flexibility issue. It's a "knees out" issue. You are trying to get depth by leaning over. Keep your chest up, shove your knees out and sit back into the bottom. Keep your knees out and your chest up as you drive out of the hole. That does not mean LIFT your chest, just don't lean over anymore. Drive your hips up.

Paul,

Vids below from Monday & Today:

Mon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwZzLFe24xw

Today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQn2dkl4GYE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fDlYqcSkkY

[Paul Horn]

Better. Now cut those off about 3" higher. You're going too deep. Do not let your chest drop when you drive your hips up. Hips and shoulders go up at the same time, not hips THEN shoulders. Keep your chest up.

[theyorkshirewaller]

I thought hips led slightly out of the hole, slightly changing back angle? Need to get my head around this part of the movement!

[Paul Horn]

Technically you are correct, but the OP is dropping his chest too much when he drives his hips up. The hip drive should be a mere suggestion that hips are leading out of the hole, and, when done correctly, it is only noticeable for a brief moment before the shoulders catch up and the back angle becomes constant again.

[theyorkshirewaller]

ok. So if chest drops to much as hips go up, does weight move forward of mid foot and cause a 'squat-morning' movement? That seems to be what I am struggling with.

Thanks!