Squat check

[Len MacDonald]

I have a thread going in the Programming area (http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=38044) about my problem with premature stalling on the squat at 180lbs. I have been doing a strength training program for about 20 weeks, but it seems I can't get anywhere with my squats. Here is my other lifts for reference:

Squat: 180
Bench: 145
Press: 93
Dead 235
Row: 135

I was told to post a form check here for some opinons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEIC6cWsHjU

I recorded the last warm up set at 140lbs, a side view at 180lbs and a front view.

[John Hanley]

I see three clear issues:

1) when the weight gets heavy, your squat turns into a 2 part, goodmorning-esque movement. Your hip angle stays closed way too long in the concentric phase. Try fixing your gaze a few more feet out and keep your chest up when you drive out of the hole. I also suspect your trunk is softer than it should be. You have to brace your trunk harder than you think possible,

2). The front-angle video clearly shows your knees buckling in. Maybe you've got weak external rotators/aBductors. Whatever the case, keep your knees shoved out during the ascent. Again, more than you think you should. Really shove them out.

3). On several reps, your knees shoot forward about 1-2" as you're coming out of the hole. You're losing so much power doing that. As a result your balance & bar path get totally out of whack. Pause your video at 46 seconds. See where the bar is in relation to your mid-foot? WAY forward. Review the section on "master cue" in SS.

The good news: your premature stall is most likely the result of these poor mechanics. Your squat is very inefficient (and not so good for your lower back). Invest in a few hours with a good coach...then buy shoes, then a belt.

[Len MacDonald]

I see three clear issues:

1) when the weight gets heavy, your squat turns into a 2 part, goodmorning-esque movement. Your hip angle stays closed way too long in the concentric phase. Try fixing your gaze a few more feet out and keep your chest up when you drive out of the hole. I also suspect your trunk is softer than it should be. You have to brace your trunk harder than you think possible,

2). The front-angle video clearly shows your knees buckling in. Maybe you've got weak external rotators/aBductors. Whatever the case, keep your knees shoved out during the ascent. Again, more than you think you should. Really shove them out.

3). On several reps, your knees shoot forward about 1-2" as you're coming out of the hole. You're losing so much power doing that. As a result your balance & bar path get totally out of whack. Pause your video at 46 seconds. See where the bar is in relation to your mid-foot? WAY forward. Review the section on "master cue" in SS.

The good news: your premature stall is most likely the result of these poor mechanics. Your squat is very inefficient (and not so good for your lower back). Invest in a few hours with a good coach...then buy shoes, then a belt.

I think you are correct on all counts. I watched the video again, and you are spot in with the bar path. I thought it was over mid foot, but it clearly isn't. I tried 180 again today, but I think my form was even worse. I tried the master cue, but I still can't get the bar to go where it needs to go. And I tried knees out, but they just wouldn't comply (I never did that from the start, so my adductors have probably fallen far behind). Clearly the weight is too heavy for me to try to fix. But I am at a loss as how to fix the situation.

Getting a coach would be the best approach, but just isn't possible where I live. I live on a small island on the east coast of Canada. I Googled for any kind of barbell coach where I live, and the only thing that comes up is Crossfit.

[Gunnhild Bruno]

The "head down" position shouldn't be like looking over the side of a boat. Keep your chest OUT, hard, at all times, not just when driving up out of the hole. Then just tilt the chin down a little and make sure it doesn't crane forward too far, that it stays slightly tucked.

Also, give us a rear view. It's possible your bar position is low.

[Len MacDonald]

I tried doing 185 today, tilting my head up more like you suggested (I forgot to charge my camera, so I didn't film it) The first set felt good, and I didn't feel as gassed as I usually do after a set, and there did seem to be almost like a bounce from the bottom. Everything went down hill however on my second and third set. I only got three reps on my second set, and two on my third (I actually had to dump the bar on the pins). I dropped the weight down to 135 and had my girlfriend record it with her smart phone. Even at that weight, the bar was well ahead of my mid foot. I was thinking the master cue the whole time, I THOUGHT it was over mid foot, but it wasn't. I will charge my camera and film next training day for another check. The question is, should I deload?

[John Hanley]

Yes. Deload. Your form needs an overhaul.

[Gunnhild Bruno]

I tried doing 185 today, tilting my head up more like you suggested

I didn't suggest tilting the head up. I said keep your chest out and don't crane your neck forward.

The question is, should I deload?

You're having problems making the form adjustments, so, yes, deloading would be helpful. Sometimes, especially with minor corrections, it's possible to keep going without altering the weight, but in your case, that obviously won't work, as you yourself realized already:

Clearly the weight is too heavy for me to try to fix. But I am at a loss as how to fix the situation.

How to fix the situation? If the weight is too heavy to fix the form at that weight, take the weight down to a point at which you can. Then work your way back up with correct form.

[Len MacDonald]

I didn't suggest tilting the head up. I said keep your chest out and don't crane your neck forward.

Sorry, I took it to mean have my chin up slightly as if there was a tennis ball there, opposed to the golf ball position and the "looking over the side of a boat" I was doing.

How to fix the situation? If the weight is too heavy to fix the form at that weight, take the weight down to a point at which you can. Then work your way back up with correct form.

I did a major deload down to 115 and made another video: A side view, front view, and one from behind so you can see where I position the bar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epFPigq2DHY

[John Hanley]

These look so much better Len. Work your way back up slowly. Strength follows technique. Get lots or perfect reps in.

You still look a bit soft out of the hole, but I think that will be corrected with more reps, shoes, a belt, and a non-rug lifting platform. Some folks might get pissy about the bit of lumbar flexion at the bottom of your squat, but I wouldn't sweat that.

Bar position might be a bit low (but it's hard to tell)...you'd see a gap on your rear delt between the bar and the spine of your shoulder blade. I can't see a gap from this angle, but I suspect there's a minor one.

[Gunnhild Bruno]

Good comments from John.

Some folks might get pissy about the bit of lumbar flexion at the bottom of your squat, but I wouldn't sweat that.

It doesn't bother me, and I think that it will be minimized by concentrating on staying tighter at the bottom anyway. Don't use light weight as an excuse for any looseness at the bottom. There is no relaxing in the squat, ever. Practice keeping everything tight at lighter weights, too.