Medium day pushing lift for press specialists?

[PrimalFish]

For Heavy-Light-Medium programming what would a good pushing movement be for those who wish to emphasize the press over the bench press?

PPST mentions the Push Press, Incline Bench, and CG Bench as options, but I read on another recent thread the Push Press is no longer recommended. The Incline Bench and Close Grip seem to have more of a bench press emphasizes.

I guess I could just do a lighter day Press (maybe even a seated dumbbell Press?) on light day, but I was wondering what some better options would be. Thanks!

[Michael Wolf]

Press specialists would probably press twice a week. Close grip bench would be a good option for the other day, or regular bench press with a little bit of lighter close grip benching as back off work after the pressing on one of the two days.

[PrimalFish]

Thanks. So I guess you would keep the bench press on heavy day then, and press on both light and medium days? What would the set and rep range be? I guess you'd use a lower percentage on light day? Something like:

Heavy Day
Bench 5x5

Light Day
Press 3x5 (10% less then upcoming medium day?)

Medium Day
Press 3x5?

[Michael Wolf]

A lot more detail will need to be hammered out here, depending on the many particulars of this lifter. One glaring one, for example, is: is this block programming where you're just accumulating volume, and the lifter never touches a heavy % rep for a month or two? That's what it looks like, at pure face value. So to tell you whether that looks good is way too simple.

But the idea here is that you're going to want a heavy press day and a heavy or reasonably heavy bench day, too, to continue driving upper body strength. You can call the bench "heavy" if you want, because it'll be heavier than the heavy press day, even if it's at a lower % of max. And since the person is a press specialist, the third pressing slot would probably also be filled by pressing.

But again it depends on so many factors. HLM can be fit into SO many different types of programs, from very simple/general/basic for an early Intermediate just out of LP, to a late Intermediate who's trying to make a PR every three weeks or so.

[PrimalFish]

A lot more detail will need to be hammered out here, depending on the many particulars of this lifter. One glaring one, for example, is: is this block programming where you're just accumulating volume, and the lifter never touches a heavy % rep for a month or two? That's what it looks like, at pure face value. So to tell you whether that looks good is way too simple.

But the idea here is that you're going to want a heavy press day and a heavy or reasonably heavy bench day, too, to continue driving upper body strength. You can call the bench "heavy" if you want, because it'll be heavier than the heavy press day, even if it's at a lower % of max. And since the person is a press specialist, the third pressing slot would probably also be filled by pressing.

But again it depends on so many factors. HLM can be fit into SO many different types of programs, from very simple/general/basic for an early Intermediate just out of LP, to a late Intermediate who's trying to make a PR every three weeks or so.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was thinking of the HLM for "General Strength Training" Program #1 where an early intermediate is doing a PR each time he lifts:

Heavy Day
Bench Press: 5x1-5
Week 1: 275x5x5, Week 2: 280x5x5, etc

Light Day
Press: 3x5
Week 1: 155x5x3, Week 2: 160x5x3, etc

Medium Day
CG Bench: 3x5
Week 1: 225x5x3, Week 2: 230x5x3, etc

This program has you on the bench twice a week with much volume on horizontal pushing. If a trainee wanted to emphasize overhead pushing, what do you think the best changes would be?

[Michael Wolf]

I'm not looking at the book, but if someone has already run their Novice LP, which usually involves needing to microload to continue progress on the bench and press for a mere three sets of five, what makes you think someone who will now progress more slowly on a lift, can progress it every time he does it by a full five lbs, and for five sets of five? This seems nonsensical.

For an overhead emphasis, I'd probably do something like:

Day 1
Press "Volume Day" - 5x5, microload weekly increases 1-2 lbs

Day 2
Bench - heavy rotating single, double, or triple at RPE 8-8.5, followed by 3x5 with microloaded weekly increases

Day 3
Press "Intensity Day" - 1-2 weeks of two triple, 2-3 weeks of two or three doubles, 2-3 weeks of three to five singles, microloaded increases. Go back to triples when done with singles.
Back off 3x5 close grip bench at ~80-85% of Day 2's bench press weight, if time. If not, maybe you can squeeze in 2x8 at a lower % to get some additional bench work in.

[PrimalFish]

I'm not looking at the book, but if someone has already run their Novice LP, which usually involves needing to microload to continue progress on the bench and press for a mere three sets of five, what makes you think someone who will now progress more slowly on a lift, can progress it every time he does it by a full five lbs, and for five sets of five? This seems nonsensical.

For an overhead emphasis, I'd probably do something like:

Day 1
Press "Volume Day" - 5x5, microload weekly increases 1-2 lbs

Day 2
Bench - heavy rotating single, double, or triple at RPE 8-8.5, followed by 3x5 with microloaded weekly increases

Day 3
Press "Intensity Day" - 1-2 weeks of two triple, 2-3 weeks of two or three doubles, 2-3 weeks of three to five singles, microloaded increases. Go back to triples when done with singles.
Back off 3x5 close grip bench at ~80-85% of Day 2's bench press weight, if time. If not, maybe you can squeeze in 2x8 at a lower % to get some additional bench work in.

Awesome! Thanks for writing this up Michael. Very helpful!

[Giri Kotte]

Coach Wolf, given press is the least stressful of all the basic lifts, doesn't it make more sense to increase the frequency or volume of the press in a press centric program than try and fit in the bench press variations?

[Michael Wolf]

Coach Wolf, given press is the least stressful of all the basic lifts, doesn't it make more sense to increase the frequency or volume of the press in a press centric program than try and fit in the bench press variations?

We are increasing the press frequency here, from 3x/2 weeks (aka 1.5x/week) in the LP to twice a week in this transitional early intermediate program. At this stage, the trainee's base strength is also still being developed, so we're looking for a way to do that - which means not relegating the bench to a total backseat role - while starting a very slight bias towards the press.

From a strategic perspective, I actually think this stage may be too early to do that and keeping the bench as equal to the press or even a slight bench bias to bench, since it's so much heavier and develops that musculature well, is warranted. The transitional intermediate program I use, when possible, increases pressing volume compared to the LP and introduces the trainee to the close grip bench - so they do each once a week, which means benching twice and pressing once, with increased total volume even though frequency of the "pressing slot" hasn't increased yet.

But that's all a digression. To answer your basic Q: 1. This does increase frequency compared to where the lifter is coming from and 2. We still need to focus on bench at this stage, since an aspiring competitive lifter is not nearly strong enough yet.