Should knees be out during a 1RM squat?

[Kregna]

After re-reading the Active Hip article, I understand why you'd want to really keep your knees out (more muscle mass in the movement). However, I can only accomplish this if I take a humbling de-load. I can suck it up and do this but I want to know first whether they will just end up caving again at the heaviest weights? I've just seen this filthy video (Instagram) and looked at another of Mike T squatting and see, what I think is, knees coming in a bit (harder to see from behind) at a 5RM and 1RM, respectively

The reason I can think of for this is that the adductors have to contribute to the lift when the knees are held out and they're not as strong as the other hip extensors, thus are the limiting factor in heavy squats (like the upper back is the limiting factor in deadlifts if you were to stop increasing the weight past the point when form deviates from the ideal) and because they cannot extend the hips with as heavy a weight as the other hip extensors, the knees come in so they can contract without moving the load. I don't see how it could be the muscles holding the knees out (the at least 9 muscles mentioned the Active Hip article) because why would simply holding the legs out get harder as the weight goes up? It surely would be the same task weighted as unweighted

The answer to this will help me gauge whether it's worth me taking the weight off the bar and re-doing the LP for a few weeks to allow me to maintain knees out on my heaviest squats (i.e. if you all say knees will just come in anyway, I don't think it'll be worth it just to correct some minor knee movement).

[manveer]

I've just seen this filthy video (Instagram)

I has a sad after watching that.

You won't have perfect form on a true 1RM. Whether or not you should adjust your training weights down due to knee cave depends on how bad it is. Mike talks about his "perfect technique heuristic" here:

[Kregna]

I has a sad after watching that.

You won't have perfect form on a true 1RM. Whether or not you should adjust your training weights down due to knee cave depends on how bad it is. Mike talks about his "perfect technique heuristic" here:

Thanks dude. 2/3rds of way through now and it's an excellent video - I really need to watch more from Mike

He actually specifically mentions knees coming in around 6:20 saying unless it's major don't keep the weight light... my issue is that knees out fully makes it harder to drive my hips. I can only think it's because either:

1. My adductors are weak and by bringing them into the movement more I'm making them the limiting factor
2. By really focusing on knees out I'm doing the rest of the movement wrong by distracting myself

[manveer]

Not sure why that makes it feel harder to drive your hips. I feel like it makes things easier when I remember to think about "knees out". It could be that you're distracting yourself, as you said. You're not pushing your knees out wider than your feet, are you?

[Kregna]

Not sure why that makes it feel harder to drive your hips. I feel like it makes things easier when I remember to think about "knees out". It could be that you're distracting yourself, as you said. You're not pushing your knees out wider than your feet, are you?

Think it might be the distracting myself. I had a bit of a lay off before starting this knees out thing so might be that I'm weaker generally. Squatted earlier and it went alright with the knees out! Not sure about the knees out past my feet

Will do my linear progression with it and see the knees out thing does still happen at the heaviest weights

Thanks for the input

[chromoly]

Cheers Manveer, thanks for sharing this video. Particularly helpful for me at the moment with respect to squats.

[Kregna]

Cheers Manveer, thanks for sharing this video. Particularly helpful for me at the moment with respect to squats.

No, it's not for you. You need to deload and stay deloaded so you don't get 300 before we get 500

[chromoly]

No, it's not for you. You need to deload and stay deloaded so you don't get 300 before we get 500

I think 300 will come in December at the very earliest. Sometimes in 2018 is more like it. So I wouldn't stress too much about me beating you to the end goal. [emoji12] Annie, on the other hand, is squatting more than me and at lower RPE.

[DannyP]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that some elite powerlifters purposefully allow the knees to come in a bit on heavy squats. I cannot remember why, exactly, nor is there any indication that this would be "good" for a recreational trainee trying to build as much genereal strength at possible.

[Carnivroar]

Carni's theorem:

All form degradations are due to a weaker muscle group shifting work to a stronger muscle group.