How to figure out if you are not "gifted" or if you are just doing something wrong

[mkkn]

Currently 80kg, 180cm, male. Been training for 5 years. Training history roughly looks like this:

- 6 Months Stronglifts, but using a smith machine for the squat, because the gym didn't have squat rack
- 6 Months Starting Strength
- 2 years GSLP
- 1 year Texas Method
- 7 Months on a programming by a powerlifting coach, a lot of work in the 2-3 rep range, made no progress at all
- 6 Months Texas method
- 5 Months on Greg Nuckols' Average to Savage
- 1 Month on Greg Nuckols' Bench specialisation programm (not coached by him, the one in his 28 free programs)

I've done maybe 4 or 5 bulk/cut cycles in those 5 years and unfortunately made very little progress adding muscle. Granted it would have probably better to do hypertrophy program and I shouldn't have started to bulk with a high BFP of around 17%, but would I have made 5 times the progress with a lower BFP and a bodybuilding program? Especially now that I've trained for 5 years already, would a perfect setup (lower bf, hypertrophy program) make me gain more in the next 5 years, than the "decent" one in the past 5 years?

After cutting again after a bulk, I never looked THAT different. Never lost much strength while cutting though, so I probably didn't lose any muscle. But I probably went from 57kg lean body mass to 67kg in the past 5 years. Diet has always been pretty good and followed what's generally recommended, so can't be because of that.

After the 5 months of Average to Savage which partially has lots of higher rep range work and also doing tons of bodybuilding accessory work, I also didn't look like I've gained muscle. Gained about 300g per week, but felt like most of it was just fat. Now after cutting down to the weight I was before those 5 months, I pretty much look the same.

Strength-wise the first two years progress was pretty decent. 160kg squat, 160kg deadlift, but a shitty 84kg bench at around 87kg and way too BFP. But ever since then progress has been small. Yeah, got a bit leaner and am 80kg now, but squat is still roughly the same, deadlift is around 210kg, bench 95kg. Tried all sorts of different programs, higher frequency, higher intensity, etc, but in all that time progress with benching has been incredibly slow.

Kinda feel like I'm going in circles. Failing to make progress, reading about some new approach that sounds like it might fix it, being very optimistic about it, doing it for at least 6-12 months and realizing that I don't make much progress.

So wonder if it's time to take a step back and accept, that maybe I didn't win the genetic lottery and take a bit more relaxed approach to lifting. I would still lift 3 days a week, but just don't stress myself out about not making progress and accept that most likely I will be just be maintaining and also stop doing bulk/cut cycles, since I feel like the little muscle gains I make, don't make it worth the lower life quality.

What do you guys think?

[Simon Rest]

I think you're to hung up on your bfp and you are holding yourself back by not eating. After 5 years bb training you should be squatting more than 160kg.

[mkkn]

I think you're to hung up on your bfp and you are holding yourself back by not eating. After 5 years bb training you should be squatting more than 160kg.

Like I said, I went through several bulk/cut-cycles and had absolutely no problem to gain weight. For example went from 80kg to 90kg. But most of it was just fat and also didn't make that much strength progress. It would have been just stupid to go from 90kg to 100kg and hope it would be better.

[Joe Jaloszynski]

You're under weight. Very under weight. I'm just guessing, you did not run the novice program to the end. You've been program hopping.

[mkkn]

You're under weight. Very under weight. I'm just guessing, you did not run the novice program to the end. You've been program hopping.

So your recommendation would have been to gain even more than 90kgs, even if 95% of the 10kgs I've gained are fat? No offence, but that doesn't make much sense. If I would have gained 20kg, ended up with 35% BF and out of those 20kg only 1kg being muscle, would my lifts have really gone up that much? Maybe a bit, but not much. That's exactly my point, when I gain weight, my muscle/fat ratio is terrible.

[Joe Jaloszynski]

You're not a snowflake. You're an underweight program hopper. start there. Run LP. Eat 4000-5000 calories.

[Cody]

So you're 5'10", 176 lbs, lifting for 5 years, keep "bulking" and "cutting," and your squat has been stuck at 350lbs for 3 years?

You're not doing it right, dude. Sounds to me like you're making straw man arguments (95% fat gain when "bulking") and you aren't doing any of these programs correctly.

Get a -real- coach since you obviously can't figure it out yourself. I recommend any of the Starting Strength coaches local to you. And yes, you'll need to put some weight on.

[SivariKing]

I've had a kind of similiar experience compared to you. Basically I made most of the progress I've ever managed in the weight room during my first 3 years of lifting. Not unheard of, I know. But the funny thing is, I wasn't even on any kind of structured program. Squat went from 80kgx5x3 to 150kgx5x3 and dl from 120kgx5 to 190kgx4. Bench sucked ( haha ). Then I did 5x5 with ramped sets for 7 weeks, and got to 200kgx3 dl, 162kgx4 squat and 90kgx3 bench. Bodyweight went from malnourished 65kg at 190cm to something like 95kg.

Funny thing is, since that time I've been lifting for 5 additional years, and despite working ALOT harder than during the newbie-stage, the gains have SUCKED compared to that initial spurt. I've done 5/3/1, SS and lately TM, and they all WORKED. But NONE of them worked like the miracle-type gains I experienced as a true beginner. TM got me to 165kgx5 squat, 215kgx3 dl and 97kgx4 bench, a minor improvement if you consider it took 5 years. I actually made alot more progress strength-wise on "assistance" movements like chins, dips, db rows, db presses etc, than on the "strength" movements after the first years.

I think everyone can get stronger relative to where they are now, but not everyone can realistically put up big numbers like 400/500/600. There are too many variables at play, that can't be circumvented with training alone, like: height, limb length, bone density, muscle insertion points, nervous system efficiency, natural hormonal profile, basic metabolism ( how easy it is to gain weight ), tendon thickness ( how injury-prone you are ) ect. Quite alot of factors. Now, I'm not making excuses, and saying you shouldn't train at all, if you're not build like a brick house to begin with. All I'm saying is, not everyone gets the same results from low-volume, barbell-based strength programs.

Maybe you could try a bb-split? It's what I'm gonna do now, I've never really done one properly before, and I'm kinda curious. Does bodybuilding work? Can weak guys still get jacked and hyoouuge? Only one way to find out! Go for it!

[manveer]

Well, you didn't win the genetic lottery. But by definition most people are average. Most men are squatting more than 160kg after five years. You need to gain some weight (without eating too much junk) and continue to train. What objective evidence do you have that 95% of the weight you are gaining is fat?

Read this: The Beauty of the Bell Curve

[mkkn]

Well, you didn't win the genetic lottery. But by definition most people are average. Most men are squatting more than 160kg after five years. You need to gain some weight (without eating too much junk) and continue to train. What objective evidence do you have that 95% of the weight you are gaining is fat?

Read this: The Beauty of the Bell Curve

I get your point about gaining weight. But that's basically what I've been doing several times for the past 5 years without much progress. Gained 7-10kg, noticed that it's mostly just fat, cut back down again, try again.. 95% was an exaggeration. But had a few dexa scans a while ago that showed that 20% of weight I gained was muscle, rest was fat.