Can I milk my LP any further?

[scoppi]

alright, i know theres been a lot of these threads lately, but id like to hear everyones advice. im considering either completely resetting my advanced novice ss program, or switching to intermediate programming (probably TM but 5/3/1 might be an option). heres where im currently at:

BW 180-185 lbs, height 5'6-7"

Squat: i havent missed a back squat yet. the last set i completed was 330x5x3. when i say these fuckers are hard, i mean HARD. i took 10-15 minutes rest between my first and second set, and 20-25 minutes between my second and third set. i needed that time. i barely got the last rep on the second and third set. ive developed tendonitis in both elbows, so i have to take some time off to let them heal. i dont know if id be able to complete 335x5x3. i front squat 3x3 on wednesdays, last weight was 275 which wasnt too tough.

Bench/Press: i think the squats have been sabotaging my bench/press performance. theyre so hard that ive got nothing left to give for bench/press. the best sets of completed are bench 220x5x3 and press 140x5x3. the last bench i attempted was 205 and it felt like a house; ive completely bombed on the bench. last press i attempted was 137.5 after a reset and i got it. however, im not able to do anything on them now due to the tendonitis. both movements are causing my elbows too much pain.

Deadlift: i deadlift on wednesdays. last attempt was at 370 and i only got 2 reps. i did 365 the week before and got it, even though there was some form breakdown. my lower back is in a perpetual state of soreness. i think its mostly from the squats, but either way, its always sore. i do weighted chins on mon and max rep pull ups on fri. nothing much to comment on there.

i take rest days when i need them. ill usually go something like mon, wed, sat, and then wed, fri, mon. so 2 days off between the 2nd and 3rd workout, and 3 days off between the "fri" and next "mon." simply, i just need that extra recovery time, which i think is a pretty big signal im not recovering like a novice anymore.

i was hoping to take my LP up to 365 or so on the squat and then switch programming. i was going to do this by letting my elbows heal and then reset the program completely so that i hit my current working sets in week 4-5. i think ive just been working at too high a percentage, and just bashing my body. i overreached about a month or so ago, took a week off, did a deload, and went back into it. i think that should have been a reset.

so, whats the verdict? a big reset or a switch to TM or 5/3/1?

[MAD9692]

I can't say for sure because I'm not a coach. Someone like KSC, Blowdapanis, JP, etc would probably have better insight on what to do. I can tell you however, that I shared a similar experience on the majority of what you posted.
I first got stuck on LP at 350x3x5. I somehow reset one way or another and I was able to get to a very hard, back breaking 380x3x5 before I stopped with my LP and moved on. I experienced the same losses in my bench and DL. I knew in the back of my head that both lifts (especially the DL's)were being affected becuase the squats were taking so much out of me.
I tweaked my back around this time and I had a huge reset. I decided to start doing 5/3/1. I tested my squat and managed 355x1x5. I followed 5/3/1 BBB and my deadlift shot back up. Unfortunately my press and squat were negatively impacted and after 2 months I squated 3401x5.
5/3/1 is an awesome program that is simple, fun, and to the point. Unfortunately I needed more volume to make gains and it didnt work for me.
I recently started a new weekly set up thats been working well for me. Ludwig posts the workout under the intermediate lifters log. It's the same one I do.
I think that TM would work well here, if you have the time to devote to it.
KSC also has a good sample program on his site as well, that will probably work. He's pretty helpful with these things. You should ask him what he thinks.

I almost forgot. Milking the LP will be alot easier/possible if you ate a lot. (GOMAD, etc)I'm not sure if thats a problem you are having.

[Alex Bond]

Well resting 20 minutes between sets is absolutely ridiculous so if you actually need to do that then something funky is up. I know it is a stereotypical answer, but what's the eating like? I got my LP squat up to 360#x3x5 with the help of ice cream and fried chicken. You're a lot smaller than I am in both height and weight so you could do that depending on whether you think you can carry the pounds well. The injuries are probably from working too hard, take a light week and then give it another shot. 5/3/1 is way too little volume. TM is better than it if you want to move on. But honestly, linear progression and food go hand in hand so closely, the more you eat the farther it goes.

[simonsky]

alright, i know theres been a lot of these threads lately, but id like to hear everyones advice. im considering either completely resetting my advanced novice ss program, or switching to intermediate programming (probably TM but 5/3/1 might be an option). heres where im currently at:

BW 180-185 lbs, height 5'6-7"

Squat: i havent missed a back squat yet. the last set i completed was 330x5x3. when i say these fuckers are hard, i mean HARD. i took 10-15 minutes rest between my first and second set, and 20-25 minutes between my second and third set. i needed that time. i barely got the last rep on the second and third set. ive developed tendonitis in both elbows, so i have to take some time off to let them heal. i dont know if id be able to complete 335x5x3. i front squat 3x3 on wednesdays, last weight was 275 which wasnt too tough.

Bench/Press: i think the squats have been sabotaging my bench/press performance. theyre so hard that ive got nothing left to give for bench/press. the best sets of completed are bench 220x5x3 and press 140x5x3. the last bench i attempted was 205 and it felt like a house; ive completely bombed on the bench. last press i attempted was 137.5 after a reset and i got it. however, im not able to do anything on them now due to the tendonitis. both movements are causing my elbows too much pain.

Deadlift: i deadlift on wednesdays. last attempt was at 370 and i only got 2 reps. i did 365 the week before and got it, even though there was some form breakdown. my lower back is in a perpetual state of soreness. i think its mostly from the squats, but either way, its always sore. i do weighted chins on mon and max rep pull ups on fri. nothing much to comment on there.

i take rest days when i need them. ill usually go something like mon, wed, sat, and then wed, fri, mon. so 2 days off between the 2nd and 3rd workout, and 3 days off between the "fri" and next "mon." simply, i just need that extra recovery time, which i think is a pretty big signal im not recovering like a novice anymore.

i was hoping to take my LP up to 365 or so on the squat and then switch programming. i was going to do this by letting my elbows heal and then reset the program completely so that i hit my current working sets in week 4-5. i think ive just been working at too high a percentage, and just bashing my body. i overreached about a month or so ago, took a week off, did a deload, and went back into it. i think that should have been a reset.

so, whats the verdict? a big reset or a switch to TM or 5/3/1?

did you do GOMAD? fuck were the same height (even i cant distinguish whether i'm 5'6 or 7) but you are ~10 lbs heavier though your lifts are of the roof! have you cut? fuck i'm jealous

anyways, i think that front squatting on the middle of two squat sessions would be better in the long run? what do you guiys think?

[scoppi]

simonsky: i havent cut yet. i think ill get to 195 and then try to get rid of the nice little love handles im starting to get. i do front squat on wednesdays. it started as 3x5, but i can front squat a pretty significant percentage of my back squat, so i wasnt getting any recovery. so i scaled them down to 3x3 and i think its much smarter.

alex: ah, i knew i should have included some info about nutrition. i started out weighing 150. gomad got me up to 170 pretty easy, where i stablalized for a couple weeks. it took cutting the milk down to half chocolate gomad and eating a LOT more food. thats gotten me up to 183ish. i probably eat 5-6000 calories per day. some days i might be around 4000, others closer to 7000, but im getting 6000 pretty consistently.

but heres the thing. im ok with putting on some weight, but only if its useful. at 170 my squat was at 315x5x3. ive added 15 lbs of bodyweight, and the only thing thats gone up is my squat by 15 lbs. every other lift has dropped, except for my press which is has stayed the same. i want to be big and strong, but fat and as strong as i was before is not appealing. i dont want extra fat if all its going to do is make putting my shoes on harder.

mad: i took a look at that program. looks pretty solid to me. i do like the split, rather that trying to squat and press on the same day. theres no inclusion of a light day, but i think sled pull/pushes, sprints, and some accessory work would do just as good of a job, which is what it looks like youre doing.

thanks for the replies.

[gzt]

If you're taking that long between squat sets, I think you need to give yourself permission to fail.

[scoppi]

im not gonna lie, letting myself fail has never crossed my mind. whats the longest rest period allowed between sets? ive seen the 3-5 minute rule, but thought it was acceptable to take a bit longer in between heavier sets.

and unless anyone says something different, im going to go for the big reset and try to get a little bit more out of my lp.

[gzt]

I don't think anybody has said anywhere, but 15 minutes just sounds excessive. I can't imagine more than 10 would be worthwhile.

[squatyourface]

I start to go cold at about ten minutes rest. I'm not sure if you'd actually be doing sets across at that rest, rather three seperate 5rm's. Just a thought. Nonetheless your lifts are godly, you have paid your dues to the barbell. I had/have a very similar experience to you. Both elbows are fucked and bench/press is affected. The sq is so hard that form goes to shit and all I think about is UP. Somehow my hands manage to get under the bar/pushforward/pulldown or whatever and fuck my elbows in the process while my brain is in panic mode with a 5rm on my back- and partially hands, obviously. I recently posted a similar query to you on the q and a- check it out. In the end, Sounds like a tough call.

[selters]

I don't think anybody has said anywhere, but 15 minutes just sounds excessive. I can't imagine more than 10 would be worthwhile.

Sprinters rest 15 minutes between max efforts. Resting for 15-30 minutes between sets makes the workout very long, but it might be justified from a training perspective (as long as he stays warm by doing some light sets in between or something else). But yes, if I were him, I'd give myself the permission to fail.