Both Biceps

[220orBust]

Hey Rip,

Age: 27
Height: 5'10"
Weight: 182 (as of monday)
Consumption: 4000 calories a day minimum

back squat: 285 x 5
Deadlift: 305 x 5
Press: 150 x 5
Bench press: 205 x 5
Dips: 55 x 8 (holding off on these)
Pull Ups: 55 x 8 (holding off on these)

I am currently doing the SS program and I have been keeping a log since I started, you can find it HERE.

The main issue I am having right now is the pain in my biceps. The pain throbs and surges deep in the belly of my biceps (nothing like soreness). It hurts most during dips and pull ups don't feel great either. Other things that bring the pain are bench press, shoulder press, and apparently picking up a 20lb box full of shirts. Also I did a pushup today and it hurt like hell.

I was progressing nicely in my weighted dips and pull ups, but with this pain I can barely do one dip with nothing but my body weight (I can crank out pull ups with body weight but causes pain to increase for the next few hours).

In addition to the hellish pain I get in the middle of my biceps, I get achy pain around my elbows and shoulders. This leads me to believe that I have bicep tendinitis in the upper and lower tendons of both biceps. Or maybe I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, either way it hurts like shit and is affecting my training.

I have cut out the weighted dips and pull ups as I cannot even do an unweighted dip. The question is should I keep pushing through bench press and shoulder press even though it hurts the biceps (not as bad as the dips and pull ups)?

I'm all ears to your suggestions, thank you for taking the time to read this and give your impute.

[Zach]

I found out the hard way that my upper back does not respond well to the SS program. I had all the same symptoms you describe.

In my case, the problems were:
1. Squatting
2. Persistent stress tension in my upper back

At around the time I started squatting the same weights you are squatting now, I started experiencing the pain you describe. I also began to have a pain radiating from the back, top of my left tricep that made it impossible for me to press. I have been doing a combination of 4 things to fix it:

1. Deep tissue massage across my entire upper back.
2. Squatting only with a safety squat bar, to a box. I also do hack squats to round out the deficiencies of these.
3. Doing a lot of pulling work for my upper back... T-bar rows, pull-downs on a Hammer High-iso machine, Lat pull-downs, etc... in higher rep ranges, typically 3 sets per exercise of 10-8-12
4. (perhaps the most important) I've simplified my life and eliminated almost all of my stressors.

I've been at this plan for a while now, and the pain has gone away. I haven't squatted with a straight bar in months, and I don't know if I will again any time soon. It's very appealing to me for its simplicity, but I am happy being pain free.

I theorize that I was squatting more weight than my upper back could support. My musculature there was not big enough and was often in a state of distress to begin with. I think that the bar was mashing down on nerves and muscle insertions (issue with my tricep). I was also forced to clinch harder with my hands/arms to keep the bar in place (elbows and biceps issues.)

Rip may not agree with me on this, but after having struggled with these problems for about 3 years, I am convinced that at the first sign of it a lifter should back away from the 3-day a week SS or Texas Method programs and focus on hypertrophy in ancillary body parts.

[220orBust]

Forgot Power Clean: 190x3

Also, did 290x5 for 3 sets on back squat today and the thing that hurt most was my biceps. I think lifting my elbows back for the low bar position is setting them off too, they are killing me right now.

[Mark Rippetoe]

This is one of those injury questions that I can't deal with at a distance. Sorry.

[calmasahinducow]

I had this problem when I was doing lots of pull-ups. I took a week off and started doing chin-ups and chull-ups (neutral grip) instead. Now I have no pain.

[Mark Rippetoe]

You also have no bicep work in your pullup workout.

[mbdonner]

I had developed similar pains in one arm while doing pullups. Like others, I switched to chinups and the pain went away. I self-diagnosed a variety of tendonitis. I had been varieties of the problem for most of my life. This summer I had a full rupture of the distal medial bicep. Guess what. No more pain in my arm, my "tendonitis" went away, so did my "carpal tunnel." My surgeon agreed that I was probably having chronic tears and pain for years and years. For what it's worth, I chose not to have surgery. I'm continuing to do strength training and am fairly close to where I was before the full rupture.

[calmasahinducow]

I am so confused.

"The major - and significant - difference between the two is the bicep involvement in the chin-up and the lack of it in the pull-up." Mark Rippetoe, Starting Strength 2nd Edition, page 253.

[Mark Rippetoe]

About what are you confused?

[calmasahinducow]

I am confused as to who post #6 was directed at.