TM volume day and women

[Margie]

In light of the recent conversation about having women work in 3's rather than 5's, I am wondering whether that might also apply to the 5x5 day for TM. Would it be a reasonable experiment to do 7x3 or 8x3 so that the volume is relatively the same?

(I think Michele may have asked this question at the Brooklyn seminar this weekend, but I can't be sure, so apologies if this is repetitive.)

[Mark Rippetoe]

She didn't ask about that, and I don't really know. This is kind of a new idea, so you guys try it and report back.

[mlentzner]

May I ask, what is the rationale for this?

We're all masters level lifters at my place and we've been playing around with triples instead of fives - I suspect for the same reasons. We are weak in the upper end/low rep strength.

[Beau Bryant]

I train as many women as I do men and have found that starting with 3x5 works best. At some point most women will start missing the 4th or 5th rep even on the first set. At this point I abandon 5s and move to TM 5x3 and 3rm on Fridays. This has worked amazingly well for every female I have tried it on.

This is my wife 9 months post baby hitting 210 for a triple at 135 pounds body weight. Only recorded 2 reps on film.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMlTf...e_gdata_player

And here is another of our girls hitting 250 for a triple. Video is a couple weeks old and she will hit 260 for 3 this week.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unsdB...e_gdata_player

[Behemoth]

Mildly hijacking, but did anything ever come of the original experiment someone was doing on triples for women in a novice program? And what was the thinking behind it?

[Mark Rippetoe]

The thinking is that since women recruit motor units less efficiently, and since they therefore can do a higher percentage of 1RM for 5s than men, then 3s might more closely simulate the stress of a male's 5RM and therefore his 3 sets of 5. But this is just an idea.

[Gillian Mounsey]

This is just my personal experience but I have had great success with 3's after plateauing with 5's. What seems to be most important about the 3's is to do enough overall volume. Less sets for me yielded slower gains. I recently (3 weeks ago) switched back to TM at 5's after spending about 6 weeks at 3's. My numbers all went up and within 2 weeks I could squat, DL, press and bench my previous 3 RM for 5.

I agree with the motor recruitment theory. I train with my husband and even though my set of 5 feels like a 5 rep max (could not do a sixth rep), I am recovered within seconds and ready to go again in 2-3 minutes versus the 8 minutes that he takes/needs. When I work at a 3RM, I have a more similar experience to his 5RM with regard to effort and recovery.

[Margie]

I train as many women as I do men and have found that starting with 3x5 works best. At some point most women will start missing the 4th or 5th rep even on the first set. At this point I abandon 5s and move to TM 5x3 and 3rm on Fridays. This has worked amazingly well for every female I have tried it on.

So, do you mean that you do a linear progression of 3x5 until it taps out and then switch to TM with 5x3 for volume day? Or you start TM with 3x5 and then when it taps out, switch to 5x3?

Your wife looks strong!

[SaraSaraT]

I've been doing 3x3 (novice program) for a few months now and it's working great; I seem to be managing the right amount of adaptation to keep adding weight to the bar. Anecdotally speaking, I think Rip's idea is correct.

[Beau Bryant]

So, do you mean that you do a linear progression of 3x5 until it taps out and then switch to TM with 5x3 for volume day? Or you start TM with 3x5 and then when it taps out, switch to 5x3?

Your wife looks strong!

I run classic novice 3x5 until the first three reps look fast and they start missing the 4th or 5th. Then move them to TM with 5x3 on volume day and 3s on intensity day.