Am I Doing The Program?

[Tom Narvaez]

Hi Coach,

If this belongs in repetitive inquiries, feel free to shove it in there.

I've been doing my best to follow the program for two months now (8/1 start date).
Thus far, here are the results:
Height: 5'6" (I've actually grown a half inch during the program), Age: 20, Gender: Male
Weight: 165lbs -- 195lbs
Squat: 205lbs -- 355lbs
Bench: 135lbs -- 198lbs
Deadlift: 225lbs -- 365lbs
Press: 95lbs --- 135lbs
P.Clean: 80lbs -- 120lbs (just added these 2-3 weeks ago)
Chins: 165lbsx8 -- 212x5 (I do 3x5 with weight now)

I've finally hit my first stalling point and in the last few workouts I've had to reset everything but bench and clean for the first time. During that time, I've basically been in diet limbo and I think it is starting to affect my progress.

I've read and reread "A Clarification", but, as dumb as I feel, and as dumb as this sounds, I keep feeling like the choices I'm making with my diet are NOT your program.

I started off skinny, but maybe a little bit chubby. I was 163lbs with a 15.5" neck and a 34.5" waist. According to the navy body fat calculators (not sure if these even approach accuracy), I was 19.2%. Retrospectively, I probably shouldn't have taken the initial diet approach I did.

I went with GOMAD and whole milk. I gained 35lbs and got to a high point of 199lbs (morning weight). My waist was 39.5" and my neck was up to 16.5" which puts me at 26.2% according to the navy body fat calculators.

I came to the conclusion that I was probably reaching the point you mentioned in the article: I was starting to carry more fat than is needed for an anabolic environment and more than is efficient for moving the bar.

So, I switched to skim milk and cut the milk to half a GOMAD. I lost 4lbs in 10 days and half an inch on my waist. I also stalled on every single one of my lifts (except bench and clean).

To me, this is somewhat of a conundrum because I seem to need the huge caloric intake, like you'd recommend for a skinny guy needs to grow, to sustain my progress (or maybe I was about to stall anyway?), but, at the same time, I'm clearly past the point of having moderate amounts of body fat (or am I?).

So, I'm unsure what to do here. Should I try the ~4000 calorie approach with half a GOMAD, ~3500 paleo, low carb, no dairy for fat guys, or just march on with the gallon of whole milk to get the weight going back in the right direction?

I just want to make sure that I actually do the fucking program so that I don't have any excuses when LP stops working. I don't want to be "that guy" who really needs to "move on" when he hasn't even exhausted half of his gains because of a shitty dietary approach. Getting big and strong are my top training priorities besides refraining from doing stupid shit as much as possible. I'd imagine taking the wrong dietary approach falls under the "stupid shit" category quite nicely.

I apologize because this is a bit gay, but I don't trust the navy calculators and I do have pictures from both time periods. I chose not to leave them as links so people don't have to see:
~165lbs, ~19% body fat?:
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...2/IMAG0144.jpg
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...2/IMAG0146.jpg

~195lbs, ~26% body fat?:
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1.../WP_000142.jpg
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1.../WP_000140.jpg

I've gotten conflicting advice from the community on this one and I'm just not sure what to do.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Your lifts, apparent (navy?) job description, and bodyfat are at the point where the milk has lost much of its usefulness. I'd go to a pretty tight paleo at about 4000kcal and make up your mind that progress is going to continue. Check your rest between sets, increments, and all the other details that are usually responsible for non-diet-related sticking. I see no reason for progress to stop if caloric intake can maintain recovery. Milk is easier, granted, but it can't be -- and isn't -- recommended for everybody.

[Tom Narvaez]

Thanks, Rip.

Increments are in order as I now have 1.25lbs plates to microload for presses. Squats I think maybe it was just time for a reset considering where that lift is compared to my others. I actually had a reduction in performance. I got my prescribed weight, albeit by resting 10 minutes between work sets, but after I reviewed the footage, I determined that a few of the reps were too high for me to count them. Knees were not being shoved out adequately at the bottom and my gut was jamming into my thighs. This problem hadn't been present in previous work sets. I decided to repeat the weight for my next workout and failed after the first rep. Kind of bizzare, but that is what happened. I followed a deload protocol that I remember reading in either SS or PP. I assumed the decrease in performance was somehow related to overtraining/underrecovery. I performed only squat warmups for one workout. Then I did one set at a reset of 10%. Finally, I got back on track with the same weight I did for one set the previous workout for all three prescribed sets. I've got 330 prescribed for tomorrow.

For deadlifts, I have been taking 10lbs jumps. Should I move to 5lbs jumps? At some point, I was planning on introducing power snatches, and I actually ran the programming by you earlier, but I'm still relatively new to cleans so I thought it made more sense to decrease deadlifting frequency by cleaning twice for every deadlift workout and maintaining the 10lbs. jumps. I haven't put this plan into place yet because I only failed my deadlift set on Tuesday. I haven't had another workout yet.

Time to drop my beloved milk, I guess. Thanks again Coach.

[ToyStory]

Nice lifts. At 5'6 you seem to have great levers and will certainly move a great deal of weight. However I don't want to be the one to bring the bad news but probably only 7-12 pounds at best of those are 35 pounds are actual muscle.

You started at 163 and around 19% BF. This means - 31 pounds of fat.

You ended at 199 and around 26% BF. This means - 51.7 pounds of fat.

So you added exactly 20 pounds of fat to your frame. The rest 15 pounds are lean body mass but 5-7 pounds are glycogen and water weight which you will lose in a week on low-carb diet. Try it. So you gained around 8-10 pounds of actual muscle and added twice as much fat. Seems like a shitty deal to me. The pictures also prove it. However once again nice lifts.

[devilbones]

Tom,
I cant believe how big your legs are now. What a transformation. Good job. Did you happen to measure before and after?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Thanks, Rip.

Increments are in order as I now have 1.25lbs plates to microload for presses. Squats I think maybe it was just time for a reset considering where that lift is compared to my others. I actually had a reduction in performance. I got my prescribed weight, albeit by resting 10 minutes between work sets, but after I reviewed the footage, I determined that a few of the reps were too high for me to count them. Knees were not being shoved out adequately at the bottom and my gut was jamming into my thighs. This problem hadn't been present in previous work sets. I decided to repeat the weight for my next workout and failed after the first rep. Kind of bizzare, but that is what happened. I followed a deload protocol that I remember reading in either SS or PP. I assumed the decrease in performance was somehow related to overtraining/underrecovery.

I suspect your squats are high. Post a video.

Nice lifts. At 5'6 you seem to have great levers and will certainly move a great deal of weight. However I don't want to be the one to bring the bad news but probably only 7-12 pounds at best of those are 35 pounds are actual muscle.

You started at 163 and around 19% BF. This means - 31 pounds of fat.

You ended at 199 and around 26% BF. This means - 51.7 pounds of fat.

So you added exactly 20 pounds of fat to your frame. The rest 15 pounds are lean body mass but 5-7 pounds are glycogen and water weight which you will lose in a week on low-carb diet. Try it. So you gained around 8-10 pounds of actual muscle and added twice as much fat. Seems like a shitty deal to me. The pictures also prove it. However once again nice lifts.

When the program is followed correctly, we find that about 60% of the bodyweight gain is LBM. LBM is defined as everything except fat. Bones grow, ligaments, tendons, skin, AND muscle, which is about 75% water. Glycogen and water are normal components of muscle mass. You think only the anhydrous part of the contractile protein counts as muscle gain? He got a little carried away, granted, but this a very good strength improvement, fat can be lost when necessary, and what do you squat? I ask because I get tired of skinny "bodybuilders" criticizing my strength people.

[Carlos Daniel]

and what do you squat? I ask because I get tired of skinny "bodybuilders" criticizing my strength people.

Oh, this is gonna be fun. I know the answer, but I'll just grab some popcorn and watch the show.

[Tom Narvaez]

Last successful weight before reset: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQpehellkk0

I realize this isn't the best angle for judging depth, but I was having problems with my knee track so this is the angle I had them filmed from. I'm not under the delusion that my partner is giving correct cues.

[Tom Narvaez]

And the deadlifts in that video are awful. I recommend not watching them. I've since stopped being an idiot (no yelling), and done more to keep my back in extension.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Good. Lees tpo watch. The squats look deep from this angle, and not too terrible for that close to 5RM.