RIP style squats vs WSB squats-what's the difference?

[Ellen]

would be interested to know your opinion on the differences between squatting with hip drive vs squatting "back back back" a la WSB style where below parallel depth is a rare occurrence...It seems from what I have seen that since they go back instead of down during the descent they have no choice but to go hips forward on the ascent instead of hips back and up (aka hip drive). I also realize that this is usually done in triple ply gear and not Raw. The few WSB lifters that I have seen lift raw (OK maybe one) cannot achieve depth and usually bomb. Not to mention their stance is ridiculously wide (again a triple ply phenomena) which would also be a reason they can't get deep without tearing their "junk".

[Mark Rippetoe]

I don't know much about what Westside lifters do out of their gear. I really don't know much about what they do at all, since modern powerlifting is not really my interest. But I have found 2 videos that I think will illustrate the difference between the way we teach the squat and the way Westside lifters approach it. The first is Scott Cartwright squatting 1025 in a USPF meet, the second Andrey Malanichev squatting 1034 in an IPF-sanctioned meet. Note the difference in the mechanics of the movement, the bar speed through the lift, and the use of the hips.





We teach the squat mechanics Malanichev uses. I believe the gear to be approximately equivalent. If I am incorrect in this comparison, please advise.

[Tom Lang]

Ellen, this is great timing--I was wondering about the same thing myself. The guys in my gym, which is a powerlifting gym, owned by a former powerlifter, trains his athletes with the WSB style squat. They're a little baffled by my attempts at the LBBS. We're all friendly, and often discuss the differences between the two styles. I've given the gym owner a copy of Rip's "How I Learned to Use my Ass" article to help him understand it, but I don't think he's read it yet. The recent "Analyzing the Squat" article may be more useful.

These two videos are an excellent illustration of the different mechanics involved, and that both move a lot of weight. My problem is that I have been fighting form issues, so am not moving a huge amount of weight yet.

It's kind of fun working out with guys who are doing paused box squats with 315 on the bar, and 100lbs of chains as well. And watching them, literally, tear their shorts as they hit depth. Interestingly, one of the guys there, who has been lifting since forever, doesn't mess around with the WSB style. He uses a kind of wide-stanced (but not WSB wide) LBBS style, moving 315lbs for reps. He's 66.

[David Lee]

Curious on your thoughts about Malanichev's hand position?

That bar speed is amazing.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I'm not concerned with his hands or his neck. I've posted this to illustrate his hip mechanics, and the differences in bar speed between the two squats.

[Shion]

From what little I know of geared squats, the ultra-wide stance is used to get as much out of their suits as they can. I notice little forward knee movement at the bottom of Cartwright's squat but that's because he barely hits parallel. Shouldn't then his bar speed be higher than Malanichev's, with all the bounce at the bottom from the stored elastic energy? I think Malanichev is just a hell of a lot stronger. Much nicer squat too.

[alagon]

Really Rip? Modern powerlifting does not pique your interest? No disrespect Rip, but there are quite a few powerlifters who are exciting to watch. Like this man for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcXFYzlo5us

[Mark Rippetoe]

Yes. This is very exciting.

[Les Hahn]

From what little I know of geared squats, the ultra-wide stance is used to get as much out of their suits as they can. I notice little forward knee movement at the bottom of Cartwright's squat but that's because he barely hits parallel. Shouldn't then his bar speed be higher than Malanichev's, with all the bounce at the bottom from the stored elastic energy? I think Malanichev is just a hell of a lot stronger. Much nicer squat too.

They are both wearing gear. You can get your suit cut for wide or narrow stance. Both are going to give you a boost.

[hamburgerfan]

Could be wrong, but I'd say the differences in bar speed in those two videos have more to do with the individual lifters than the squat styles they may represent.