Deadlift fix

[Mark Jamsek]

I need some suggestions. My current program is this:

Monday
Primary Squat: Comp. lift
Primary Bench: Comp. lift
Primary Bench Assistance: Pause bench / pin press
Upper Back: Wide grip + supine grip + neutral grip pulldowns superset
Conditioning: 3 x Wingates or prowler sprints

Tuesday
Primary Deadlift: Comp. lift
Secondary Bench Assistance: 2 board / bands
Squat Supplement: Pause squat / zerchers
Upper back: Wide grip + supine grip + neutral grip rows superset

Wednesday
GPP: Barbell complex + ab work + 20 minutes bike

Thursday
Secondary Squat: Wraps / pause squat / pin squats
Secondary Bench: TnG / CGBP
Primary Bench Supplement: BB press / DB bench or press
Upper Back: Wide grip + supine grip + neutral grip pulldowns superset

Friday
Secondary Deadlift: Pause DL / bands
Secondary Bench Supplement: Floor press / CGFP
Deadlift Supplement: Snatch grip SLDL / RDL
Conditioning: 3 x Wingates or prowler sprints
Upper Back: Wide grip + supine grip + neutral grip rows superset

Saturday
GPP: Barbell complex + ab work + 20 minutes bike

Sunday
Rest

I just had PRs on my squat and bench during my realization week, but my deadlift hasn't budged.

Any suggestions?

[hamburgerfan]

Maybe you could tell us how much you deadlift, how long you've been lifting, your height and weight, your sticking point, what you feel is and isn't working about your current program, etc?

[Kazzin]

I suggest lots of partial squats. Surely the carry-over to deadlift will be immense since the knees are partially extended from the pulling position.

[ChadTheMeatBeast]

Maybe don't deadlift the very next day after squatting.

[Mark Jamsek]

Hi, hamburgerfan. Thanks for chiming in, it's appreciated.

Maybe you could tell us how much you deadlift, how long you've been lifting, your height and weight, your sticking point, what you feel is and isn't working about your current program, etc?

Last week during my Sport Form week I pulled 220. I've pulled 230 and doubled 220 in the last couple months. My weak point, like most raw conventional pullers, is just off the ground. I feel like my programming is working well. My bench and squat have significantly improved, and my technique on all the lifts has also improved. I think I wasted some time with bands, and might benefit from rotating a different movement in my secondary deadlift slot.

I've been training about 10 months. I'm 174cm or 5'8".

I suggest lots of partial squats. Surely the carry-over to deadlift will be immense since the knees are partially extended from the pulling position.

Hi, Kazzin. Interesting suggestion. Where would you place the partials? I'd say they're too unspecific for my primary or even secondary slots, so supplemental? I think muscular development might be better obtained through other exercises for supplemental work though.

It's an interesting point you make about the joint angles. I believe Eric Cressey had great success by utilizing a similar protocol with explosive isometric work: He would pull against pins at the same joint angle as deceleration occurred during his deadlift. But the specificity is addressed by that movement; you can see the distinction between the partial squat and isometric pull.

Maybe don't deadlift the very next day after squatting.

Hi, Chad. Do you think my programming is structured poorly? Where would you place the primary and secondary deadlift movements?

[Les Hahn]

Mark, there are some folks here running traditional upper/lower splits. Some of them also use the conjugate method (as well as others) for that setup. I use basic periodization, but the setup would be similar.

Here is what it could look like:

M- Heavy Press (or if you don't press, just do more benching), Secondary bench, assistance
T- Primary Squat, Seconday DL work, assistance
Th- Primary Bench, Secondary bench/press work, assistance
F- Primary DL, Secondary Squat, assistance

This will help you recover more for your DL. Like Chad said, you have heavy squats followed by heavy DL's the next day. Maybe you need a little more time between those big lifts.

[ChadTheMeatBeast]

What Callador said.

[Bayn]

Hi, hamburgerfan. Thanks for chiming in, it's appreciated.



Last week during my Sport Form week I pulled 220. I've pulled 230 and doubled 220 in the last couple months. My weak point, like most raw conventional pullers, is just off the ground. I feel like my programming is working well. My bench and squat have significantly improved, and my technique on all the lifts has also improved. I think I wasted some time with bands, and might benefit from rotating a different movement in my secondary deadlift slot.

I've been training about 10 months. I'm 174cm or 5'8".

Sorry, just making sure, is that 220 LBs or KGs?

[elVarouza]

Last week during my Sport Form week I pulled 220. I've pulled 230 and doubled 220 in the last couple months. My weak point, like most raw conventional pullers, is just off the ground. I feel like my programming is working well. My bench and squat have significantly improved, and my technique on all the lifts has also improved. I think I wasted some time with bands, and might benefit from rotating a different movement in my secondary deadlift slot.

Good suggestions from Callador. From my experience: I have similar numbers to you on deadlift. I've recently pulled 220kgx3 and 230kgx2. I used to have a bad sticking point off the floor and I've found three things have helped. 1) Deficit deadlifts, where you stand on a block. This helps reinforce the ability to stay tight off the floor. I've found it's good to do these explosively from the floor to build speed into the bottom half of the lift. 2) Beltless deadlifts, which again reinforce staying tight and can be good at training speed off the floor. 3) Direct ab work. I've been using the ab wheel.

[Mark Jamsek]

Mark, there are some folks here running traditional upper/lower splits. Some of them also use the conjugate method (as well as others) for that setup. I use basic periodization, but the setup would be similar.

Here is what it could look like:

M- Heavy Press (or if you don't press, just do more benching), Secondary bench, assistance
T- Primary Squat, Seconday DL work, assistance
Th- Primary Bench, Secondary bench/press work, assistance
F- Primary DL, Secondary Squat, assistance

This will help you recover more for your DL. Like Chad said, you have heavy squats followed by heavy DL's the next day. Maybe you need a little more time between those big lifts.

Hi, Cal. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. That's obviously a more fatigue dominant approach? With only squatting and benching twice a week it might be a step in the wrong direction for me. I've found I'm responding well to the higher frequency. With the volume dispersed on a more frequent basis more work can be done at a higher intensity. Cramming all the volume in only two days might result in a fair portion of the work done at a lower intensity than I can achieve with the more frequent programming of the lifts. And more work more often means more practice, which should mean more skill.

I don't feel like I'm not well recovered on Tuesday or Friday. I only do on average 3-4 working sets of squats on the preceding day, most of the work is benching. Given the relationship between intensity, volume and frequency I'm hesitant to attribute it to insufficient recovery. And all things being equal I think higher frequency is better. Mike Tuchscherer explains it better than I could here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq_ys9ZHAL8
Ben Rice, another exceptional raw lifter, also explains the benefit of frequency dominant programming well too. His YouTube channel is a great resource.

What Callador said.

Thanks, buddy.

Sorry, just making sure, is that 220 LBs or KGs?

That's cool. 220kg.

Good suggestions from Callador. From my experience: I have similar numbers to you on deadlift. I've recently pulled 220kgx3 and 230kgx2. I used to have a bad sticking point off the floor and I've found three things have helped. 1) Deficit deadlifts, where you stand on a block. This helps reinforce the ability to stay tight off the floor. I've found it's good to do these explosively from the floor to build speed into the bottom half of the lift. 2) Beltless deadlifts, which again reinforce staying tight and can be good at training speed off the floor. 3) Direct ab work. I've been using the ab wheel.

Deficit pulls sound like a good choice, I've thought about them. I just wonder if it changes the movement just a little too much for my weakness? But if your deceleration phase was right off the floor like mine, maybe I'm wrong. I think I will rotate between pause and deficit pulls. Good idea, thanks.

All my pulls are without a belt during my volume blocks so I get quite a bit of beltless work in, which I agree help a lot. I do some ab work on GPP days, not much. I don't think ab work would contribute much to my deadlifts though.

Deficit deads were always a big help to me.
What are pause deads? Pause at the top?

Yeah, I think we have a winner.

You generally pause at the bottom part of the lift. You might pause just as you break the bar off the ground, or just below the knee-depends on your weakness. Paused work makes very good secondary main movements for raw lifters. I rotate them for all my secondary main slots on all three lifts.

I actually thought I may have used too light a band, and too much bar weight with my band work. How much accommodating resistance did you guys normally use with band work?

I would use about 25kg at the top. I thought ~10% of 1RM was the usual.