Conventional and Sumo Deadlift

[oshirok]

Hey guys,

First, I have read a few other sumo deadlift related threads, but there wasn't much discussion about programming both together.

For those of you who do both sumo and conventional deadlifts I'm curious how you go about programming them. I'm thinking the simplest thing is just switching weekly or doing both in the same session (probably too stressful), but I'm curious what others do or think would work.

Here's some background about me if it matters.
5'4", 153 lbs, 20 years old
Started texas method about 2 months ago.
I'm not a powerlifter, but I enjoy pulling sumo in addition to conventional. I might consider entering a powerlifting competition eventually though.
recent lifts:
sumo dl 385x6x1
conv dl 315x5x1 (I have had my form checked and it's at least decent)
squat 295x5x1

side note: I know some people disapprove of sumo deadlifts for non powerlifting competition purposes, but I did some measuring and the ground to the middle of the barbell when I conventional deadlift is 29", and for sumo it's 26" (I don't take a super wide stance). So when sumo deadlifting, the increased weight makes up for more than the shortened distance and I actually do more work. That's my reasoning for it being a valid training tool. Although this is specific to me of course.

I'd appreciate any helpful responses.

[Adam Skillin]

Hey guys,

First, I have read a few other sumo deadlift related threads, but there wasn't much discussion about programming both together.

For those of you who do both sumo and conventional deadlifts I'm curious how you go about programming them. I'm thinking the simplest thing is just switching weekly or doing both in the same session (probably too stressful), but I'm curious what others do or think would work.

Here's some background about me if it matters.
5'4", 153 lbs, 20 years old
Started texas method about 2 months ago.
I'm not a powerlifter, but I enjoy pulling sumo in addition to conventional. I might consider entering a powerlifting competition eventually though.
recent lifts:
sumo dl 385x6x1
conv dl 315x5x1 (I have had my form checked and it's at least decent)
squat 295x5x1

side note: I know some people disapprove of sumo deadlifts for non powerlifting competition purposes, but I did some measuring and the ground to the middle of the barbell when I conventional deadlift is 29", and for sumo it's 26" (I don't take a super wide stance). So when sumo deadlifting, the increased weight makes up for more than the shortened distance and I actually do more work. That's my reasoning for it being a valid training tool. Although this is specific to me of course.

I'd appreciate any helpful responses.

Just program one for a while then switch. How much heavier can you pull sumo?

[oshirok]

Recently, I pulled 385x6 sumo and 315x5 conventional. Haven't maxed on either.

[Meshuggah]

Do a couple of sets of conventionals after your sumos to keep your lower back strong.

[oshirok]

I was actually thinking about something along those lines. Maybe like conventional dl one week and then sumo dl and conventional stance rack pulls the next week? I don't think it'd be too stressful since my conventional isn't all that heavy.

[Jsutt]

Wouldn't you be better off just pulling full conventionals after your sumo work sets? The whole point is that they have a longer ROM.

[oshirok]

I suppose so. I just wonder if pulling conv every week and sumo every other week would be too much after a while. Also, on the days I do both, would it be better to do conv first anyways. I could just do my conv work set then I wouldn't have to drop the weight as much to warm up for sumo.

[Coconut Chris]

Do you have proportionally short arms? That could make conventional comparatively harder.

I think that total volume-wise, you could get away with pulling both sumo and conventional. Sumo deadlifts, being less stressful on the back, are also quicker to recover, and you can accumulate more volume (for a given weight on the bar). I pulled sumo worksets after I regressed on my top set of conventional two weeks ago in the same workout, and it worked out fine. Only took one warmup set.

Along with what others have recommended, you could try doing sumo deadlifts on Volume day- maybe 2 x 5-8 at 70 - 80% and then cutting squats back to 4 x 5. If you want to do deadlifts once a week, then consider using Sumo as your intensity deadlift and using SLDL's for a few back-off sets.

[oshirok]

My arms aren't like extremely short, as far as I can tell. http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=51560
There's me conventional deadlift.

Are you suggesting that I do sumo on volume day, while doing conventional on intensity day? I like the idea, not sure how that would affect recovery though. Sumo is less stressful on the lower back, so that's good, but would the extra weight make up some of that stress?

And thanks guys, I appreciate the responses.

[Adam Skillin]

I'd just pull sumo once every month or so to maintain the motor pattern. Conventional + squats will keep all the relevant musculature getting stronger.