Trainer: "high-bar because of deadlift"

[yakli]

Hi coach,

A trainer I've hired to teach me and my wife the lifts recommends that we use the high bar back squat (but he's open to teaching us both styles). He claims that since deadlift targets our hamstrings and glutes, the added hamstrings work in the LBBS isn't that important.

I've been convinced by your arguments favoring the LBBS in general, but I cannot find a strong argument against the HBBS if we follow the rest of the SS program and deadlift.

[Mark Rippetoe]

The "can't lift as much weight, and therefore can't get as strong" argument is not persuasive?

[Michael Wolf]

I am slightly embarrassed to say I used to think this way too, circa 2009. I eventually realized that what is important isn't which muscles are more targeted in a certain movement or variation, but the systemic effects of greater load under the bar. I wish I had figured this out sooner.

For assistance exercises, maybe you're trying to target something more specifically. But for selection and technique criteria for primary lifts, no.

[Anon321]

Hi coach,

A trainer I've hired to teach me and my wife the lifts recommends that we use the high bar back squat (but he's open to teaching us both styles). He claims that since deadlift targets our hamstrings and glutes, the added hamstrings work in the LBBS isn't that important.

I've been convinced by your arguments favoring the LBBS in general, but I cannot find a strong argument against the HBBS if we follow the rest of the SS program and deadlift.

Why does your trainer think high bar squats have any value? If you are in the business of targeting specific muscles, and deadlifts allegedly train the hamstrings, glutes, and erectors better that the low bar squat, why back squat at all? Quads? Why not front squat then? If your trainer deems front squats too light to be better for quads than high bar squats, why wouldn't this reasoning extend to high bar squats being no better than low bar squats for quads?

What kind of high bar squats is he talking about anyway? Parallel, or until the hamstrings are compressed against the calves? Knee forward hips straight down squats with a nearly constant back angle? Or gym rat "a2g" squats where the lifter sits their ass back first, then shoots their knees forward after reaching parallel, making the torso more vertical, followed by a butchered hip drive/good morning where the back angle changes again and allows them to make use of their posterior chain while still shouting "High bar for life! A2g all day every day baby!"... Followed by them going to bodybuilding.com forum and hypocritically criticizing Rip for his "Unathletic squat-goodmorning hybrid"? Lol

[Suwannee Dave]

I would be skeptical about whether the trainer can actually teach you correct technique for the low bar squat.

[Jay Bigguy]

Low bar squat has 100% cary over to the low bar squat, high bar squat not as much.

[Christopher Button]

I am slightly embarrassed to say I used to think this way too, circa 2009. I eventually realized that what is important isn't which muscles are more targeted in a certain movement or variation, but the systemic effects of greater load under the bar. I wish I had figured this out sooner.

For assistance exercises, maybe you're trying to target something more specifically. But for selection and technique criteria for primary lifts, no.

This is precisely why certain people ought to stop referring to the LBBS as a variation of the squat, which they take mean the Olympic-style, upright torso, bar-on-the-traps movement.

The low bar back squat is the parent movement because it is the most generalized form of the squat - it involves the greatest amount of muscle mass over the longest effective range of motion.

I'm preaching to the choir, I know, but I like typing.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Low bar squat has 100% cary over to the low bar squat, high bar squat not as much.

Does this mean that you think the low-bar position version of the squat has "cary" over over to only itself?

[Giri Kotte]

Low bar squats are not only safer for the knees but also protect knees from injuries.
Physically, farther the bar is placed to the front, farther the knees are from the mid-foot and greater the forces on the knees. Also, lesser the involvement of the hamstrings which are essential to protect the knees.

[Jay Bigguy]

Does this mean that you think the low-bar position version of the squat has "cary" over over to only itself?

No, I meant that I think that low bar squat is more effective than high bar squat when you want to become stronger at low bar squat.