What do you guys think of this Personal Trainer's form on the set-up?

[ayjay23]

I think his hips are a bit low at the start. But damn he deadlifts heavy: Instagram

[chrisd]

I think his hips are a bit low at the start. But damn he deadlifts heavy: Instagram

His hips actually rise into position as the bar breaks the floor.

He's also lifting 495lb, so I'm not really entitled to an opinion.

[Adam Skillin]

His hips actually rise into position as the bar breaks the floor.

He's also lifting 495lb, so I'm not really entitled to an opinion.

Why aren't you entitled to an opinion on whether the bar leaves the floor before his hips rise and the bar rolls back over his mid-foot? Which of course it does, since the weight is heavy, and that is what a lifter and a heavy barbell must do. And which is why we advocate a set-up that puts the hips in the spot they'll end up in anyway before the bar leaves the floor.

[chrisd]

Why aren't you entitled to an opinion on whether the bar leaves the floor before his hips rise and the bar rolls back over his mid-foot? Which of course it does, since the weight is heavy, and that is what a lifter and a heavy barbell must do. And which is why we advocate a set-up that puts the hips in the spot they'll end up in anyway before the bar leaves the floor.

Well, that was more of an observation of me having an opinion on the lifting technique of someone who lift that heavy. I've seen some truly dreadful technique used to deadlift, Bar over toes, hips down low at the start, jerked start, bent arms. The weight goes up and the lifter lives to lift another day. They might be able to lift more with better technique, but I don't think they care.

As to the second point. the hips need to occupy the best position at the actual start of the lift. It's pretty much bound to happen. Hunting around a bit to find the right position is one way of doing it. How long do you need to spend, static, in the ideal position before starting the lift ?

This guy obviously has a lot of experience. He prefers to set up from a squatting postition. He sets his grip, gets the bar in place, extends his legs and spine and, as his hips pass through the ideal spot, the bar goes up.

If he was teaching the lift, then I would hope to see a definite 'start point' to make it clear to whoever is watching that he knows where the actual initiation of the lift is.

[Adam Skillin]

Well, that was more of an observation of me having an opinion on the lifting technique of someone who lift that heavy. I've seen some truly dreadful technique used to deadlift, Bar over toes, hips down low at the start, jerked start, bent arms. The weight goes up and the lifter lives to lift another day. They might be able to lift more with better technique, but I don't think they care.

As to the second point. the hips need to occupy the best position at the actual start of the lift. It's pretty much bound to happen. Hunting around a bit to find the right position is one way of doing it. How long do you need to spend, static, in the ideal position before starting the lift ?

This guy obviously has a lot of experience. He prefers to set up from a squatting postition. He sets his grip, gets the bar in place, extends his legs and spine and, as his hips pass through the ideal spot, the bar goes up.

If he was teaching the lift, then I would hope to see a definite 'start point' to make it clear to whoever is watching that he knows where the actual initiation of the lift is.

You're clearly right that he prefers to set up from a low-hip position but assuming that the fact that he knows about the inefficiencies inherent in doing so probably gives him credit he's not due. Many, many very strong lifters use inefficient technique for reasons other than solid, rational analysis of the moment arms and biomechanics involved in performing the lifts.

[chrisd]

You're clearly right that he prefers to set up from a low-hip position but assuming that the fact that he knows about the inefficiencies inherent in doing so probably gives him credit he's not due. Many, many very strong lifters use inefficient technique for reasons other than solid, rational analysis of the moment arms and biomechanics involved in performing the lifts.

Well, I'd guess that the number of lifters who have a solid, rational knowledge of moment arms and biomechanics is limited.

As to the inherent inefficiencies. To enter the set up position, you have to start from some other position. You could start with legs fully extended and spine flexed, hips would probably be high in this position. Is the position of the body, before it gets squoze, relevant to the efficiency after that point ?

He also squats 405 with his wrists extended. He breaks parallel ten times and everything else works okay.

Even if he has been trained inefficiently and doesn't know better than to pass this on, he isn't failing. If he is getting his trainees stronger and not hurting them, then it isn't terrible.

So, could he do better. Probably.

Would he respond to the opinion of someone who says "Hey, I noticed your deadlift set up was inefficient. By the way, I've been training for a year and can only lift half what you can, but there's book I've read that makes me better than you". I think not.

[MBasic]

I agree w/ chrisd about the deads and squats.

But other shit this guy does . . .I dont know man. . . . seem like dork. That DL video in the OP is the LAST of this guy's worries:

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Instagram

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guy might be the poster child for the "guy doing things inefficiently is inherently strong"

[melody]

you didn't want to post his 405x10 squats for the bashing? He is strong and looks great, who gaf where his hips are when he begins his squats?

[Joe Jaloszynski]

You're clearly right that he prefers to set up from a low-hip position but assuming that the fact that he knows about the inefficiencies inherent in doing so probably gives him credit he's not due. Many, many very strong lifters use inefficient technique for reasons other than solid, rational analysis of the moment arms and biomechanics involved in performing the lifts.

Considering the amount of horizontal displacement by that bar, I know straps are a touching subject to some, there is no way he could control that bar without those wraps. To me and my inconsequential eye, there's no way he gets that bar off the floor with out those straps. The straps aren't helping with a grip strength issue really with this guy. They are covering up a form fault.

I agree w/ chrisd about the deads and squats.

But other shit this guy does . . .I dont know man. . . . seem like dork. That DL video in the OP is the LAST of this guy's worries:

Instagram

Instagram

Instagram

Instagram

guy might be the poster child for the "guy doing things inefficiently is inherently strong"

Any bro/training that lifts shirtless with a do-rag and backwards hat immediately screams something else to me.

[MBasic]

Considering the amount of horizontal displacement by that bar, I know straps are a touching subject to some, there is no way he could control that bar without those wraps. To me and my inconsequential eye, there's no way he gets that bar off the floor with out those straps. The straps aren't helping with a grip strength issue really with this guy. They are covering up a form fault.

so . . . . how the straps and different than a hook grip? does hook really train your grip? . . . makes no sense (bolded part)

Here's sumo 515 mixed grip w/ no straps . . . .his grip is fine (no homo)