Ask Rip #34, DE deadlift vs clean vs high-pull

[Tiedemies]

Hi,
The re-iterated argument, which I think is absolutely right about how DE deadlift can't be quantified quite as well.

But what about high-pulls? People with problems racking a clean should definitely be able to high pull much more weight than they can clean. Also, if you do not count pulls that do not exceed a certain height, then you do not have the same problem as you would with quantifying DE deadlifts. There are ways to objectively quantify high-pulls, like have a broom stick suspended at the correct height so that you try to hit the stick.

The upside is, it should work for people with the sorts of mobility problems that might prevent racking the clean. And you can't do it slowly, or the bar won't fly high.
-H.

[Mark Rippetoe]

High pulls, as I have said many times, are useless for the Olympic lifts because they are 1.) pulled differently than the full pull, and 2.) are also not quantifiable.

[Jeff Power]

What would be the recommendation for those of us with old football injuries (avascular necrosis of the navicular from a wrist fracture)? How can we get the transfer to power from strength built? I have tried to just catch in the press position but that usually wreck my already temperamental wrist so I thought the high pull would be a good option.

[Mark Rippetoe]

High-pulls may be the best you can do, if you have to do something explosive.

[Jeff Power]

So how would you advise a 49/200#/70" male to "train" to be more explosive/athletic/powerful?
Lifts:
SQ 385
DL 385
PR 185
BP 245(just started trading this again)

[Will Morris]

What would be the recommendation for those of us with old football injuries (avascular necrosis of the navicular from a wrist fracture)? How can we get the transfer to power from strength built? I have tried to just catch in the press position but that usually wreck my already temperamental wrist so I thought the high pull would be a good option.

Have you tried a power snatch while wearing wrist wraps?

[MWittmer]

High pulls, as I have said many times, are useless for the Olympic lifts because they are 1.) pulled differently than the full pull, and 2.) are also not quantifiable.

This has been heavily debated over the years. Abajiev's approach to training with pretty much the actual lifts only fueled the specificity issue further. I recall him saying at one point that eventually the Bulgarian training would consist of snatch, C&J and front squat, and only singles, with max singles all the time.

At one of the junior worlds, I thought I would hang out at the training hall and see how heavy the Bulgarians actually went in the days up to the competition. Their SHWTs were one and two on the start list, so I was especially curious to see what they did in the run up to a competition. Two days out, they both did pulls, both doing snatch pulls up to 180 for 3 sets of 3, clean pulls with 220 for the same. I couldn't believe it. Heavy pulls? For triples? And for three sets each? Two days prior to a major competition. And here I was under the impression that the Bulgarians were not even using pulls anymore. If I recall correctly, they both ended up with around 400 totals and finished gold and silver. Hard to believe they would peak like that and harder to believe they were "training through" a world championships.

[obelix]

High pulls, as I have said many times, are useless for the Olympic lifts because they are 1.) pulled differently than the full pull, and 2.) are also not quantifiable.

Are they only pulled differently due to the lack of clear "target" for the end of the pull? How about high pulls to a stick? That should both give a target and make them quantifiable.

[Tiedemies]

I'm not saying high pull is as good as a clean, but it should be better than DE deadlift. Definitely much more quantifiable. Kono describes a nice method of doing it.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Are they only pulled differently due to the lack of clear "target" for the end of the pull? How about high pulls to a stick? That should both give a target and make them quantifiable.

They are pulled differently because they do not rack, you know you're not going to rack them, so the timing is different and the commitment to the finish is not there. High pulls to a stick are not racked either.