Overhead squats to cure kyphosis

[UnBalanced]

Coach Rippetoe:

I come to you with a difficult problem. My wife has extreme kyphosis or rounding of the spine. She has no lordotic curve at the small of her back. Even at age 23 (she is now in her late 30s) she had the beginnings of a dowagers hump. Her vertebrae also appear to sit outside her spinal erectors. Sit-ups on a concrete floor leave her with bruises where the spinal processes contact the floor. This is not a function of being too skinny, as she has now had three kids and has plumped up quite a bit, yet the kyphosis/dowager's hump and extra-erector vertebrae remain. In addition to this condition not being very comely, my wife has very little flexibility in her legs and trunk and suffers from a great deal of neck and back pain. She can round her back just fine, but cannot arch it at all. Come to think of it, its almost as if her back is permanently rounded.

All of our three kids, (ages 8, 6 and 3) have inherited this type of skeletal/muscular structure to varying degrees, however it is most pronounced in my 8 year old daughter. I want to figure out a way for my daughter to cure herself of this structure while she is still growing and developing. Surgery or bracing is out of the question.

I was thinking that SS would be good for her, but teaching an 8 year old girl (very girly and feminine girl - has no interest whatsoever in lifting Daddy's weights) to do all those different exercises is not likely to be succesful. I was thinking that overhead squats (with the back in the back squat position, not the front squat position) would be the best choice. In my experience doing overhead squats forced my back into the most aggresively exagerrated (i.e. correct) spinal curvature position. My hope is that as my daughter dd the OH squats, her actively retracted shoulders would force the spine and muscles into something resembling a normal spinal curve and, as she gained strength and flexibility, the muscles may isometrically pull her spine into a proper position as she grows.

I turn to you as doctors have been useless in even understanding the nature of my question and concern. Her condition, and probably that of my wife, as well, is probably sub clinical and something where the risks of surgical intervention would vastly outweight the benefit, if such a benefit was even possible with this type of congenital abnormality. Even if they did understand my question, they would probably recommend some horseshit like ballet, yoga or something even gayer. I have no faith in any of that shit - only the iron.

Any insights? Recommendations on exercises? What about programming for an 8 year old girl? While I am certain that my daughter will do what I ask of her, exercise wise, I do not want this training to seem like a punishment - she does not want to be there doing squats - I want her to be doing them. Anything you can recommend to make them more pleasurable for her?

Thanks a million for all your insights here and in your books.

[Mark Rippetoe]

It is interesting that you think these conditions are subclinical. As a starting point, what has been the diagnosis given for your wife, and what have they suggested as treatment?

[Robert Beckett]

Mark, you mention in SS:BBT that the Front Squat works the thoracic spinal erectors (or something to that effect) - so much so that it is common for FS newbies to notice soreness b/w their shoulder blades. (I'm going from memory since I'm at work and don't have the book in front of me).

This makes me think that the Front Squat (as opposed to the OHS) might help prevent kyphosis. Does this hypothesis square with your experience/knowledge?

I ask this knowing that barbell training is not necessarily the answer that UnBalanced is looking for - it's a general question.

[UnBalanced]

Thanks for your response, Coach.

My wife has always been very sickly and unhealthy. She has seen many doctors over the years for dozens of ailments and issues. If her spine problem was one that was not subclinical, I think it would have been addressed when she was younger. She inherited this kyphotic condition from her father who, based on my (imperfect) assessment of his posture, appears to have had it, as well, yet lived a full, reasoanbly active life.

My wife has seen chiropractors for her neck and back pain who have done some spinal manipulations on her and who have recommended she do some stretching and postural/standing recommendations, that sort of thing. Notwithstanding these imperfections, everything works okay on her. That's probably the main reason why I say the condition is sub-clinical. Even my daughter can do dance class and Karate class (although she, too, is very inflexible-probably due to ham string insertion point at hip/lower back)

This condition my wife and daughter have is mostly a question of aesthetics, strenght and flexibility. At this level, these defects are usually perceived as sub-clinical.

[Mark Rippetoe]

There are a lot of sickly, weak, detrained people with nonetheless straight spines, so I suspect there is a clinical case of some sort here. It may have a strong genetic component. But like scoliosis, a hyperkyphotic spine can benefit from a correctly designed and applied strength program. A bad case of scoliosis can be a crippling mess, and the fact that hers is not that bad may mean that the two conditions are not clinically equivalent, but I don't know since I've never dealt with this sort of thing before. Your wife's situation may be unsalvageable, or it might respond well, if she'll do the work. The kiddos need to develop a training habit early, so that if the condition can be prevented it can be addressed in time.

[UnBalanced]

Coach Rippetoe:

Do you have any programming tips for an 8 year old girl? How about motivational insights for an 8 year old girl - she is real "girlie" and not inclined towards touching "daddy's weights."

Thanks

[isis]

Crossfit has a kids program, which might make learning barbell exercises more fun for your daughter, if there's a crossfit gym with a kids class in your area.

My guess is a gymnastics class would have a positive effect on her posture, but gymnastics has pros and cons, fun versus a higher risk of injury. I've also noticed that you don't see kyphosis among the regulars at the climbing gym, whether it's cause or effect I don't know, but my 8-year old who loves climbing has better posture than her sister.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I'm with Isis on this.

[UnBalanced]

Thanks, all, for your constructive comments.

Gymnastics is out of the question - we used to do that with her for several years, but she has no natural inclination in that direction and, when kids 2-3 years younger than her showed up and were able to do the tumbling exercises on their own, which she had been struggling to do for over 2 years, well, we all knew (including her) that gymnastics was not for her.

I will try OH squats with ehr on my own. Programming will be very slow, at first, probably 1X5, for the first week, then moving onto 2X5, and we will see what happens.

Thanks again.