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Thread: Swoz Gives it a Red Hot Go

  1. #1
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    Default Swoz Gives it a Red Hot Go

    • starting strength seminar december 2024
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    Greetings from Sweden!

    One month into Starting Strength. Trying to follow it to the letter but without a coach. Have read the book (and part of the second book), listened to the Radio, watched the tutorials, followed the Technique forum. Likely misunderstood everything but I'm working on it.

    Just finished Phase 1 and starting to learn to Clean. No prior strength training in life besides some dumbbell work earlier this year (Mark Matthews program with adjustable dumbbells at home.)

    Stats after 11 workouts in May 2023:

    Age: 44
    Height: 178cm (5'10")
    Weight: 72kg (up from 68kg, ~4000 kcal diet including ~3L whole milk)
    Squat: 80kg, from 50kg, increasing 2.5kg (comfortably)
    Deadlift: 90kg, from 55kg, increasing 5kg (comfortably)
    Bench: 57.5kg, from 50kg, increasing 2.5kg (damned hard, failed the jump to 60kg today)
    Press: 35kg, from 30kg, increasing 2.5kg (stalled due to bad form, hopefully improving now)

    I took a first video of my squat today: Squat 3x5 (last set) 80kg - YouTube.

    I won't solicit feedback from the technique forum because the camera work is not good enough. To my own eye it looks unsteady, doesn't go low enough most of the time, and wrists need to straighten. Hope I can improve without a reset.

    EDIT: Here is the data that I have on my workouts before I started this thread (the "*" indicates unsatisfactory in some way e.g. not getting all reps/sets, and in the first few workouts I mistakenly did deadlifts in sets of 3):

    Week of May 8th:
    Squat:50 Bench:50 DL:55
    Squat:55 Press:30 DL:60

    Week of May 15th (weight 68kg)
    Squat:57.7 Bench:52.5 DL:65
    Squat:60
    Squat:62.5 Press:35*

    Week of May 22 (weight 70kg):
    Squat:65 Press:32.5 DL:70
    Squat:67.5 Bench:55 DL:75
    Squat:70 Press:32.5 DL:80

    Week of May 29 (weight 71.5kg):
    Squat:75 Bench:57.5 DL:85
    Squat:77.5 Press:35 DL:90
    Last edited by swoz; 06-14-2023 at 10:08 AM.

  2. #2
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    Welcome!

    Don't worry about understanding all of it right now. There's a lot to understand, and sometimes that only comes with time and not getting things right.

    A couple of notes:
    - It looks like you started your deadlift too light, as it's too close to your squat weight, even at this early stage. Consider a few sessions of adding more than 5kg, but no more than 10kg, while continuing to add 2.5kg to your squat.
    - Your numbers aren't adding up. Meaning that if you're increasing 5kg comfortably each time you deadlift and you've had 11 sessions (6 A's/5 B's) during Phase I, you should be at 110kg now. That's closer to where you should be, with a greater separation between your deadlift and squat weights.
    - Stalling/failing on your Overhead and Bench Presses this early, at this load, is a couple of things. 1). You're quite light in your bodyweight, which you are working on; gaining more will help; 2) Form - both lifts are very sensitive to form issues, especially letting the bar travel outside the "groove", which means that you've lost the leverage advantages of proper form and the lever arm between the bar and the correct position are too much for you to overcome; be slow and methodical during your warmup reps, as each of those reps is practice for the work reps. Perfect practice makes for completed work reps; 3) read and answer The First Three Questions, specifically Question 1.

    re: your Squat video:
    - Make sure you set up the camera exactly as described in the Technique forum. Basically, the same angle a coach would be seeing if they were standing there in person. It will make things easier for everyone.
    - From this angle, you're right, you aren't low enough (3 and 4 were good depth). That's due to a combination of things - 1) take a wider stance; you stepped back with your feet at a normal standing position stance, which is just inside the shoulders. Your heels need to be at or just outside the shoulders; 2) toes angled out more, near 30° (it's not visible here, but apparent based on how you stepped out); 3) break at both your hips and your knees at the same time (you'll notice on several of the reps that you start bending over at the waist before your knees); 3) after both your hips and knees break, reach back with your hips towards the opposite wall; that will help lock your knees in the proper position and prevent the dreaded knee slide; 4) Focus on getting your stomach between your thighs at the bottom; that will ensure that you get proper depth; 5) You're driving up with your hips well on reps 3 and 4, but everything else is out of position and loose, so it's the drive alone that got you those reps; 6) If you can, find a squat rack that doesn't have a mirror facing you. Your eye position is very good as you descend, but you immediately lift your head to watch in the mirror, leading with your head and then your chest, which makes the squat much more difficult than it need be; keep your gaze down at the ground at a point a meter or so in front of you; 7) all of these things lead to a wild, meandering bar path when you want it to be pretty much straight up and down over your mid-foot; watch the far bar end in relation to the vertical paneling on the wall and you'll see it making all kinds of loops and arcs when you want it to be solidly in the groove right above your mid-foot.
    - Just like I mentioned with the presses, your warmup reps are your perfect practice reps. As you've found with those presses, getting the bar outside the groove will lead to a failed rep. That's also true with the squat and will quickly become evident as the weights get heavier. Better to fix it now.

    Keep at it!

  3. #3
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    Thanks Bill for the detailed feedback and encouragement! I can clearly see everything you point out even though I was completely oblivious to it when I watched the video myself. Watching the bar path wobbling back and forth makes me dizzy now...

    You are right that my numbers don't add up. I checked my spreadsheet and out of 11 workouts I've only logged 8 deadlifts and I've lost track of why. Could simply be that I forgot to log and missed increasing the weight. I also progressed my squat in larger increments a couple of times, once by accident because I'm still learning to do plate-arithmetic in my head. I'm going to try the Starting Strength app to see if that helps with my tracking discipline.

    I have a conundrum now. The workout yesterday was incomplete: I did the squats, struggled with Bench and didn't get the volume, and skipped Deadlift. Tomorrow is supposed to be a rest day but I'm going to be away from the gym for four days after that. So instead of resting I might do light squats to practice form (e.g. up to 65kg), do a bit more Bench to catch up on the volume I missed today, and try to crank my Deadlift up to 100kg. That will hopefully help me stay on track towards *truly* reaching Phase 2 without overdoing anything.

    I'll look around for a practical phone or GoPro mount for better quality video in the future.

    I have done a lot of reading and watching about squat form. I will stop rushing through the warmup sets and starting looking at them as the important opportunity to work on improving my form.

    I don't fully understand how gaining weight is going to help with my bench press but this is a timely tip. I'd been thinking I might be gaining weight too quickly and that I should slow down but I won't do that if it will be counter-productive. I had told myself that I'd err on the side of over-eating and gain 10kg as quickly as possible but it takes a lot of resolve to stick with that plan.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by swoz View Post
    Thanks Bill for the detailed feedback and encouragement! I can clearly see everything you point out even though I was completely oblivious to it when I watched the video myself. Watching the bar path wobbling back and forth makes me dizzy now...
    Quote Originally Posted by swoz View Post
    I'll look around for a practical phone or GoPro mount for better quality video in the future.
    Getting your recording device to the right height and angle is tricky, but crucial. As you can see, it's tough to judge depth when it's filmed low like this. Plus, cutting out the feet makes it difficult to know for sure if there are issues there.

    Quote Originally Posted by swoz View Post
    You are right that my numbers don't add up. I checked my spreadsheet and out of 11 workouts I've only logged 8 deadlifts and I've lost track of why. Could simply be that I forgot to log and missed increasing the weight. I also progressed my squat in larger increments a couple of times, once by accident because I'm still learning to do plate-arithmetic in my head. I'm going to try the Starting Strength app to see if that helps with my tracking discipline.
    I can't say anything about the app, but if it helps, use it. Personally, I have a spreadsheet, plus my analog logbook (paper and pen). In that spreadsheet I map out my programming for at least three cycles (I'm running a Intermediate 3-week cycle program) so that I can see what my planned progress is, as well as any issues during that period (holidays, vacations, etc.) that I need to work around, etc. Plus, I can keep longer notes there than in my analog log. An added bonus is that I can look back over several years and see where I've made progress or quickly look up a specific lift.

    My analog log book is where I plan out all of my warmup reps plus my worksets as I refer to my spreadsheet before the session, plus keep notes and mark any issues. I'm lucky enough to now have my own equipment so I'm never more than a few steps away from any of those tools, but I also found it very handy when I had to drive across town. Writing down the session before starting helps get the mind in the right place.

    Quote Originally Posted by swoz View Post
    I have a conundrum now. The workout yesterday was incomplete: I did the squats, struggled with Bench and didn't get the volume, and skipped Deadlift. Tomorrow is supposed to be a rest day but I'm going to be away from the gym for four days after that. So instead of resting I might do light squats to practice form (e.g. up to 65kg), do a bit more Bench to catch up on the volume I missed today, and try to crank my Deadlift up to 100kg. That will hopefully help me stay on track towards *truly* reaching Phase 2 without overdoing anything.
    Just so I'm understanding, you squatted yesterday (Wednesday), didn't lift today, and have a rest day programmed tomorrow (Friday)? I'm not hung up on the M-W-F scheduling, but the every other day, plus a "weekend" break. Considering your upcoming four day break, do your next workout - 82.5kg Squat; 37.5kg press; 100kg Deadlift.

    Don't start getting in the habit of introducing light days or resetting to work on form (read The Reset: How and Why). You'll get plenty of opportunities during your warmup reps, as long as you are methodical with them. The bottom line is that when you submit a working set video, it's understood that you are close to your limit and that there will be form issues; the more you work on proper technique during your warmup reps, the fewer or smaller the issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by swoz View Post
    I have done a lot of reading and watching about squat form. I will stop rushing through the warmup sets and starting looking at them as the important opportunity to work on improving my form.
    We're all guilty of rushing through those warmups for various reasons. Being mindful during those reps helps get your mind right for the heavy worksets.

    Quote Originally Posted by swoz View Post
    I don't fully understand how gaining weight is going to help with my bench press but this is a timely tip. I'd been thinking I might be gaining weight too quickly and that I should slow down but I won't do that if it will be counter-productive. I had told myself that I'd err on the side of over-eating and gain 10kg as quickly as possible but it takes a lot of resolve to stick with that plan.
    The reality is that you are currently underweight, which you recognize if you've put on 4kg during that past month (outstanding!). As you're gaining weight, you're adding muscle (and some fat) over your entire body. Once these bench presses get really heavy, you'll feel how much of your entire body you use just to get one bench press rep up to lockout. No one here is looking for you to get fat, although you may feel a bit fluffy for a bit as you run out the program. Here are a few articles to read on the topic —

    Your First Two Weeks of Strength Training | Mark Rippetoe

    Maybe You Should GAIN Weight | Mark Rippetoe

    Recovery and Growth | Mark Rippetoe

    When Do I Encourage Eating More? | Carl Raghavan

    Keep at it, and enjoy your break!

  5. #5
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    Squat: 82.5x3, 82.5x2 (failed)
    OHP: 37.5x5x3
    DL: 100x5x1

    Sneaking in a workout only 20 hours after the previous one (SQ80, BP~57.5) before a 4-day break (family holiday.)

    Squats last set: Squat 82.5kg x 2 (failed) - YouTube. Tried hard to improve form: baseball cap to block mirror, foot positioning, "ass out" going down, "knees out" at the bottom.

    Press last set: Press 37.5x5 set 3 - YouTube. Slight twinge in lower back.

    Deadlift: DL 100kg x 5 - YouTube. First rep accidentally edited out. Some distraction adjusting finger splint between reps (unrelated injury.)

    I thought about pushing harder on the squats, trying to complete 15 reps over broken sets, but decided against due to the short 20h recovery period. Just felt much harder than ever before, first time I failed to get the bar up. I worked hard on form during the warmups and I'm pleased about that.

    Feels good going into the long break with that 100kg deadlift behind me.
    Last edited by swoz; 06-02-2023 at 04:30 AM.

  6. #6
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    Much better! The big thing to focus on is that you are continuing to lead with your head, which lifts your chest, which loosens your back, which makes a rep much harder to complete. You might have completed it had you continued to drive with your hips, a skill you'll gain as you continue.

    Don't beat yourself up over these two sets. You were attempting 10kg over your bodyweight!

    Enjoy your holiday!

  7. #7
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    Thank you Bill!

  8. #8
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    Hey, well progress.

    In case of deadlift, please see The Deadlift in 5 Steps | On the Platform - YouTube, you are making it a lot harder than it has to be by improper setup.

    In case of squat like Bill has said, your head should not move. When you lift your head, it makes you lift your chest too early and kill hip drive. Try to pin your gaze like a foot in front of your toes though the whole set. The failure is not due to laxk of strength but lack of rigidity in your upper back.

    Keep going

  9. #9
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    SQ: 85x5x3 (kg) second set: Squat 85kg Set 2 - YouTube third set: Squat 85kg Set 3 - YouTube
    BP: 60x5, x5, x4, x1 third set: Bench 60kg Set 3 - YouTube
    DL: 105x4 video: Deadlift 105kg - YouTube (long video, mostly standing around after first two reps)

    Great to get back in the gym! I'm a bit concerned about how terrible my technique is but I'm relieved to be actively improving it. Hope that I can fix the worst problems before the weights get heavy enough to cause injury.

    Squat with one goal only: keep my gaze down. Second set most representative. Third regressed badly after a comment from the guy at the next rack threw me off. Felt good to increase the weight and to work hard on technique during warmups. Confident that I'm limited mostly by technique rather than muscle.

    Bench press: First time I took a video and HOO BOY were my warmup sets awful. My bar path wanders freely between my sternum and my face. I think the third working set video above is much better (less bad) than most of the (many) warmup sets. Got the last rep in a broken set.

    Deadlift: Tried to narrow my stance, raise my hips, tension my arms, "put lats in back pocket", "push the floor away." Felt very heavy and I pause substantially between reps. Reps 3&4 didn't come all the way up and I didn't get rep 5 even with two attempts. Felt like hand grip was the weak link at the end. Have to come up with a plan for improving on the DL.

    I think I noticed my new strength on vacation: carrying a large hiking backpack and lifting bags into train luggage racks felt really light and easy.
    Last edited by swoz; 06-07-2023 at 10:38 AM.

  10. #10
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    starting strength coach development program
    When you squat and go up, please keep in mind to push your knees out (this is a big one and you should improve a lot only by that single change). I think you upper back may be a bit soft as well (tighten it again before each rep, please see where are your elbows before the first rep and in case of subsequent reps). Idea to keep you gaze at a single point is really good, if possible try not to squat in front of a mirror. Personally I suggest to try to wear a belt. For me this was an eye opener because it let me how the brace feels like. You can always perform the warmups without the belt so you do not loose anything be using it for your working sets. Overall your form is not bad. I think you will quickly have really good form.

    I think your deadlift does not look bad. The only thing which may be the case is not taking the slack out of the bar (this is the big thing). Since I'm the worst deadlifter in the world, I have learned a couple of things. Too long setup drains energy. For instance I can setup very well for the first rep and it feels really light but subsequent reps are nightmare. The thing is that if you spend too much time at the bottom, you loose a lot of energy. It does not mean you should rush. If the grip is an issue, simply use straps or use mixed/hook grip. Your grip strength will go up during warmups anyway. Also pay attention to your recovery. Since you have changed a lot in your DL form, you may try to reset a bit.

    Keep your good work!

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