Tall Person with Major Squat Problems

[Wyatt]

Members of Starting Strength:

I've been trying desperately to achieve good squatting technique for the past couple of months but I still have problems with my form. I'm about 6' 4” with long femurs. My back rounds considerably as I approach parallel. Also, I feel as if I'm going to fall over backwards when I attempt to squat as low as I can. Having read and internalized Starting Strength (3rd edition) and scoured the forums here for at least a month, I feel like I've worked on many things:

-Making sure I shove my knees out as hard as possible

-Experimenting with different stance widths and toe angles to find the optimal combination. This seems to be slightly wider than shoulder width with about a 30 degree toe angle.

-Stretching: I've spent quite a bit of time stretching my hamstrings (targeting both the hip and knee end), glutes, adductors, ankles, etc. This helps but not enough. I also spend time in a squatted position while holding onto a door frame and shoving my knees out with my elbows so that I can sink deeply without falling backwards; I hold this for a while as a stretch. More recently, I've started doing stretches to improve hip mobility like the ones shown on mobilityWOD. This has helped my squat as well and might solve my problems if I keep at it but I'm not sure as there are so many variables to consider here.

-Focusing on keeping a neutral back by consciously maintaining thoracic and lumbar extension. I sometimes do the exercise in Starting Strength designed to help you achieve better lumbar extension.

-Weightlifting shoes: I have the VS athletics because they have about a 1 inch effective heel height which is the highest I've found.

I realize there are many posts similar to this one but most of them receive a medley of different responses about how to solve the same issue and so I'm not sure how to approach my problem.

Also, the guy in this post:

http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=33086

had a problem similar to mine although a bit more extreme. Some people advised him to work on his hip mobility which, as I mentioned above, has helped me some.

I guess my general question is: what actions should I take to fix my form problems? Since this is getting to be a long post, here are some recent videos of me squatting. I apologize for the longer sets but I've been using lighter weights until I have proper form because of lower back problems. Thank you very much for any feedback!

Set 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLjsWedlrEU&t=40

Set 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h65QysrzrqI&t=35

[Milo's Ghost]

Wow.

Ok. We're going to fix this. You're my new project.

First of all, you're getting plenty deep. You might even be an inch too deep. So flexibility or mobility or whatever we're calling it these days isn't your problem (it never is).

Your problem - and I mean this affectionately, my friend - is that you don't know how to squat. You have internalized SS like I've internalized being the Queen of England.

How much weight is on the bar? Whatever it is, drop it by 30%. We want you to learn how to squat before adding enough wait to actually challenge you.

Here is our plan:

1. Widen your stance 2-3". This will tighten everything up. You say you've adopted a 'wide stance.' No, you haven't. I can't tell this for sure, because I can't see you from behind (which is fine, this is a good angle, but Internet coaching is inherently limited), but I'm fairly confident. If I'm wrong we'll narrow it later.
2. When you do this, make sure you keep shoving your knees out hard. SHOVE. Like you're stealing their lunch money.
3. Stand up straight at the top. All the way up. Don't bend your knees like you're playing shortstop for the Giants. You're not Brandon Crawford.
4. LOOK THE FUCK DOWN (channeling Steve Hill here). At a spot a few feet in front of you (i.e. not at your toes). You look down all the way until you ... actually start to squat. That doesn't count.
5. Your back actually isn't *that* bad. Cut your depth off just below parallel and that will help (as will some things I'll mention below). Your lower back doesn't really round till you get (too) deep.
6. Fix your grip. Your wrists shouldn't be bent. Proper bar placement.
7. For all that is good and holy in the world, stop looking around when you have a heavy (for you) bar on your back. Really. Just stop.

Ok, that's the easy stuff. Let's take a breath.

And, we're back.

1. You're putting the bar on your traps and then trying to low-bar squat. MY neck and back hurt looking at this. It rolls up onto your neck (Christ) and it creates an increased moment arm that your back has to contend with. Assuming you're not actively trying to injure yourself - for the insurance money or something - then watch this video and pay attention like you're 13-years-old and this is the first porno you've ever seen. http://startingstrength.com/index.ph...t_bar_position
2. Once you've got the bar in the right place - and we really can't fix anything else until you have that down - make sure your knees don't move forward once you're about 1/2-1/3 through the descent. This is a problem now, but fixing the bar placement may clear this up. If it doesn't, don't worry, I'll tell you after you post your next vid.
3. The descent is one movement. It's not 'go down some, stop, think about that hot girl you saw on the street, go down a little more, fart, then finally get into the hole.' No no no. At the same time ...
4. Control your descent. Each rep is a special little snowflake to you. No. We want mechanical efficiency. Think of each rep like the poor workers in Apple's 1984 commercial. Exactly the same, every single time.

There's more, but let's start with those. Do the above and post another vid. There's absolutely nothing here that's not fixable, you are not genetically predisposed to suck at squatting, etc.

Good luck.

[Sean Herbison]

First of all, lock out at the top. It's not bodybuilding, and we're not going for time under tension.

[ZoTastic]

Squatting below parallel for a tall person is a major pain in the ass, but i'm here to tell you it can be done.

Few thing i noticed, first being the bar position. Its hard to tell from this angle, but i think it might be a bit high. The bar position is causing your upper back to round a little and your elbows to rotate under the bar as you fatigue. Try lowing the bar a few inches more and keep your elbows up. I cant see your feet, but you might need to widen you stance a bit more to hit proper depth. Remember to sit back and shove your knees out hard as you come up. Lower the weight a bit and keep squatting.

Im sure someone with more experienced will analyse your technique and provide better queue's, but these two things help me hit depth with decent form. I'm 6'6 and i don't have problem going bellow parallel
http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=41125

[Edge]

whayever you do don't tell Milo you don't want to gain weight and the reason you're here is SL chargss to use their boards... you'll get the stick!

in all serious though, listen to him, ur lucky... he seems to have found himself a mission... I can't believe the time he puts in helpin everyone out.. I'm sure he'll get you on the right path.

[Wyatt]

Thank you very much for helping me! I (clearly) really needed this. Your post made me laugh quite a bit and convinced me that I don't really know what I'm doing. I'll work on your enumeration of points and then post another video this Wednesday most likely.

One question/clarification: Initially I started with the Rippetoe-patented low-bar squat technique but, at some point, decided to experiment with the high-bar version with the hope that it would allow me to have a less horizontal back angle which I thought was hard on my back. Now it has evolved into a kind of hybrid (a better word might be 'mutant') of the two. My question: can my back angle become more vertical by fixing my technique or is this just a result of my bodily proportions that I should stop worrying about?

[Sean Herbison]

My question: can my back angle become more vertical by fixing my technique or is this just a result of my bodily proportions that I should stop worrying about?

If you're worried about it, you've probably got the wrong mental image of what the squat is supposed to look like. Most people will be around 45 degrees. Don't confuse "rigid" with "upright."

[Wyatt]

Wow.

Ok. We're going to fix this. You're my new project.

First of all, you're getting plenty deep. You might even be an inch too deep. So flexibility or mobility or whatever we're calling it these days isn't your problem (it never is).

Your problem - and I mean this affectionately, my friend - is that you don't know how to squat. You have internalized SS like I've internalized being the Queen of England.

How much weight is on the bar? Whatever it is, drop it by 30%. We want you to learn how to squat before adding enough wait to actually challenge you.

Here is our plan:

1. Widen your stance 2-3". This will tighten everything up. You say you've adopted a 'wide stance.' No, you haven't. I can't tell this for sure, because I can't see you from behind (which is fine, this is a good angle, but Internet coaching is inherently limited), but I'm fairly confident. If I'm wrong we'll narrow it later.
2. When you do this, make sure you keep shoving your knees out hard. SHOVE. Like you're stealing their lunch money.
3. Stand up straight at the top. All the way up. Don't bend your knees like you're playing shortstop for the Giants. You're not Brandon Crawford.
4. LOOK THE FUCK DOWN (channeling Steve Hill here). At a spot a few feet in front of you (i.e. not at your toes). You look down all the way until you ... actually start to squat. That doesn't count.
5. Your back actually isn't *that* bad. Cut your depth off just below parallel and that will help (as will some things I'll mention below). Your lower back doesn't really round till you get (too) deep.
6. Fix your grip. Your wrists shouldn't be bent. Proper bar placement.
7. For all that is good and holy in the world, stop looking around when you have a heavy (for you) bar on your back. Really. Just stop.

Ok, that's the easy stuff. Let's take a breath.

And, we're back.

1. You're putting the bar on your traps and then trying to low-bar squat. MY neck and back hurt looking at this. It rolls up onto your neck (Christ) and it creates an increased moment arm that your back has to contend with. Assuming you're not actively trying to injure yourself - for the insurance money or something - then watch this video and pay attention like you're 13-years-old and this is the first porno you've ever seen. http://startingstrength.com/index.ph...t_bar_position
2. Once you've got the bar in the right place - and we really can't fix anything else until you have that down - make sure your knees don't move forward once you're about 1/2-1/3 through the descent. This is a problem now, but fixing the bar placement may clear this up. If it doesn't, don't worry, I'll tell you after you post your next vid.
3. The descent is one movement. It's not 'go down some, stop, think about that hot girl you saw on the street, go down a little more, fart, then finally get into the hole.' No no no. At the same time ...
4. Control your descent. Each rep is a special little snowflake to you. No. We want mechanical efficiency. Think of each rep like the poor workers in Apple's 1984 commercial. Exactly the same, every single time.

There's more, but let's start with those. Do the above and post another vid. There's absolutely nothing here that's not fixable, you are not genetically predisposed to suck at squatting, etc.

Good luck.

Your advice was spot on and is much appreciated. With the correct bar position, the weight feels as if it's driving me into the bottom position rather than forcing my spine into a 'C' shape. Here are some videos I took today. Sorry about taking so long but school just began for me.

Set 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bo64HGHBd8&t=32

Set 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWCZjGufjEk&t=35

[Milo's Ghost]

Ok. These are a little better.

First of all, we do sets of five around here. Eventually you may want to change this up for various reasons, but not for a long time. 3x5. Tattoo it in your forehead.

I'd like to see a video taken from a higher viewpoint. I can't tell for sure, but I think your bar placement is still a little high. But it's definitely better.

1. STAND UP STRAIGHT. Why is this so hard for some people? It is literally the easiest part of a squat by far. Just stand up! All the way! See how your knees are bent? If you're standing on the corner waiting to cross the street, is that how you stand up? Of course it isn't.
2. Narrow your stance. Shoulder/hip width. I don't think you narrowed it from last time, but if you did, narrow it more.
3. Shove your knees out. They come in when you start the ascent. This isn't easy, you have to consciously think about it. Narrowing your stance will help.
4. Your knees come out over your toes too much, mostly because you're not shoving them out.
5. Don't fall into the hole like that. You're not an accordion and the bar is not Joan from Mad Men. Control your descent. Don't just crumple.

There's a general problem here, which is that you don't have very good control over your body. The bar is having its way with you. The point of a squat is not to sort of half-fall down with a loaded bar on your back and then stand back up; it's to lower yourself into a squat and then power out of the hole in one controlled, smooth movement.

Were you/are you an athlete?

Once you've fixed all this, we'll move on to hip drive.

Oh, and you really need to gain some weight, comrade.

[boot29342342]

Were you/are you an athlete?

Carnegie Mellon--basketball or crew (maybe track). Basketball makes more sense given the bent knee stance. They drilled that one into us when I was on a basketball team. You always stand with your knees slightly bent, ready to run in any direction. (Except when you squat or deadlift.)

Wyatt--from watching you squat, it seems to me that you are not taking breaths consistently between each rep. Use the Valsalva maneuver more deliberately--it should help you tighten up your trunk before the descent.