Knee Cave and Forward Launch Squat Variation

[lolnickybobby]

Hello all - me again!

I recently went back 40lbs (260 to 220) to actively work on a better squat while working up to squatting heavier again.

I'm experimenting with stance and have been filming every set, and even though I haven't figured it out fully, when I try to shove my knees out all the way to the bottom, my knees seem to cave in and I spring forward and off balance.

Is this a mobility issue? Otherwise, is there something I can to do address this?

Thank you,
Nic

07 March 2024 Squat Form Check - Knee Cave - YouTube

[Maybach]

This is "knee slide." It's not a function of driving your knees out, but rather not holding them in place. If you were driving them out, they wouldn't come in, would they?

On the way back up, the adductors, which if you are driving your knees out as hard as possible are stretched to their maximum, contract to pull your pelvis towards your knees, accomplishing hip extension. At the bottom position, however, this also pulls your knees towards your pelvis, which causes them to go in. That's why you really need to drive them out, and KEEP them out.

The "bounce" at the bottom of the squat is partially off of the fully extended adductors, which will be experienced as an inward pull on the knees. You're kind of hitting it a little too hard, "crashing", and so your knees, and hips are coming out of alignment. Think of keeping your knees back and out. Slow your descent a little while you work on this.

[Satch12879]

Your hips are breaking before your knees. You are not staying leaned over at the bottom. That’s why your knees are going forward.

[Sean Anania]

My unprofessional opinion: Your knees are shooting forward significantly at the bottom of every rep. The fix would be to set the knees outward and set the hips backwards to a much greater degree. You are not using your hips to squat.

[heinz83]

Because your back is upright, the bar is behind midfoot as you descend. When you reach bottom, the weight of the bar slides you forward, correcting the imbalance. It's more knee slide than knee cave, although a better camera angle would tell us if your stance is too wide.

I would suggest focusing on bending over more, but also bending your knees at the same time you bend your back. Make the bar go straight up and down while keeping it over midfoot.

[BruceTrout]

**For anyone else that looks at this, the camera angle used for this post was requested by another SSC**

You can turn your toes in a few degrees. The 30* is what's in the book, and is what works for most, but some need to tweak that a little.

A good question is, can you keep the knees out, with that same stance, when the bar is empty?

You're timing is off here though, and that's not helping. You're breaking at the hips THEN letting the knees flex. Those things should be happening at the same time, just like if you were going to jump. Think, "Knees First" as you start the rep and see if that helps some.

[lolnickybobby]

Hello everyone - I'm back. I figure I would respond here instead of creating a new post.

First of all - no the issue doesn't really seem to happen when I'm squatting with warmup weights, as you can see here.

That said, I also had a workout today and I had a friend help me with a few things + I focused heavily on breaking at the knees and hips at the same time + shoving my knees out immediately. It seems to have helped with the knee slide though.

How are these?

As always, thanks so much.

Cheers,
Nic

[Maybach]

These are better. Your stance is still narrow and you could stand to lean over a little more. Really focus on keeping your head and torso pointed down as much as possible.

[BruceTrout]

I think the warm-up weight set looks pretty good. What were you thinking during that set, and is it the same thing you're thinking during the 2nd video you sent? Are you worried about failing when you're at your work set?

[lolnickybobby]

These are better. Your stance is still narrow and you could stand to lean over a little more. Really focus on keeping your head and torso pointed down as much as possible.

OK thank you. Will integrate that next time around. We're making progress!!!

I think the warm-up weight set looks pretty good. What were you thinking during that set, and is it the same thing you're thinking during the 2nd video you sent? Are you worried about failing when you're at your work set?

Hello again Bruce - honestly I think at this point I'm just overthinking things in general as I try to make little changes that will eventually produce a nice squat. I guess I've been squatting wrong for ever (on and off for 15 years or so), so doing things differently feels weird (which is why I could encourage anyone to learn how to squat properly from the get go).

I'm not worried about failing my work set - especially not here, because I am working with 230lbs. I was up to 260 before and chose to take a breather on the weight so I could figure out how to squat properly without that concern.

We'll get there!