Form check Power clean (power ugly) and Deadlift

[RichWill1664]

Hello

I'm 6ft, 247. I am 7 months into SS program. I am asking for a form check on a movement I call a power ugly. It is not a power clean because it does not hit my thighs on the way up. I took a month off of power cleans and replaced them with bent over rows. This I believe had a detrimental effect on my deadlift. On deadlift I got to 460 for 4 reps. It felt off. Next time I loaded 465 expecting to get 5 reps. I didn't get any reps and form felt way off. I reset the deadlift down to 435 x 5 adding 5lb a workout (I currently deadlift once per week). I am back up to 455 x 5 and form feels much better. Yet not perfect. The power clean I continued to add 5lbs to each time. My thinking was as long as my deadlift goes up it was better to have a bad power clean, then to drop weight off the bar or switch again for a bent over row.

Right now I have a deadlift I would like to improve and continue to drive up. I have a very ugly power clean which I need to change and I'm not sure the best way to proceed.

I live in Vancouver BC Canada otherwise I would hit up a camp for coaching. Thank you for your time.

May 9, 2024 - YouTube

May 9, 2024 - YouTube

[Ryan Arnold]

Look up Craig Bears. I believe he is in Vancouver

[Mark Rippetoe]

Yeah, this is a row, not a clean. Craig is your man. And read the book.

[RichWill1664]

I have both blue and grey books, read them and now I bought the audio versions to listen to. I have the knowledge and have watched videos. My brain is malfunctioning on this one lift. It is one area of ss that I have not picked up correctly. I should have messaged on here moths before when it first went off.

That's okay. This post is a win. I messaged Craig on IG and the gym he trains at is close to me. Now I know there is an ssc here I will go in person and get some lessons.

This is going to make things much easier I think. That was my big hesitation for not doing a form check sooner. Thinking I would not be able to apply advise or tips on it without a coach in person.

Thank you for the info I will let you know how it turns out.

[BareSteel]

The PC needs an overhaul. Bent elbows. Not a great pulling position, no swift jump and stomp. Needs a lot of work.

For DL, I can't tell if you're naturally a little kyphotic or if you aren't squeezing your chest up hard enough to create extension. For reps 2-5 you're not resetting your back into position before the rep. Take the extra few moments and take your setup seriously between reps. Finally, the lockout shows some lean back and a little knee flexion. Try and see if this cue helps you: just stand up at the top. Find a weight that allows you to pull five reps with good form and restart there.

[Satch12879]

The PC needs an overhaul. Bent elbows. Not a great pulling position, no swift jump and stomp. Needs a lot of work.

For DL, I can't tell if you're naturally a little kyphotic or if you aren't squeezing your chest up hard enough to create extension. For reps 2-5 you're not resetting your back into position before the rep. Take the extra few moments and take your setup seriously between reps. Finally, the lockout shows some lean back and a little knee flexion. Try and see if this cue helps you: just stand up at the top. Find a weight that allows you to pull five reps with good form and restart there.

He is kyphotic, but does have good control of his thoracic spine. It definitely looks like he can hold his back tight. He is dropping his hips thinking he’s getting his back into better extension, however.

[RichWill1664]

"Yeah, this is a row, not a clean. Craig is your man. And read the book".

You are correct Craig is the man. Just wanted to let you know I contacted him and have had 5 or 6 private sessions now. I was able to do an actual power clean on first session. I've learned that and the snatch.

My original plan was to do 5 or 10 sessions learn the power clean then continue on my own. Now I am seeing him once every two weeks. One session on squat day and the other on deadlift day. That way I have a coach with eyes on my squat and deadlift once a month.

I started at bw on 202, now at 251
press 95 x 5, now 220 x 2
bench 185 x 5, now 317.5 x 5
squat 225 x 5, now 430 x 5
deadlift 315 x 5, now 475 x 3

I have never been this strong. So I don't really know what challenges will be coming up. We have a local powerlifting meet in October I plan on attending, something again I have never done. Having a local SSC is great. I basically feel like anything I am going to go through or experience he has already done. Which is perfect.

So thank you Rip for the whole SS program. Thank you to all that looked at my lifts and for suggesting Craig Bears. Much appreciated.

[RichWill1664]

Yeah, this is a row, not a clean. Craig is your man. And read the book.

Craig WAS the man. He was good until he wasn't. I relearned the power clean, tried out power snatch, my deadlift got moving up again and I learned my weaknesses in deadlift position.

I had to fire him. Unfortunately he put me through a 15 min stretching of yoga posses, mobility and flexibility. It weakened me and made me less stable. I failed twice on squats (my only two failed squat sessions) first time was 435 x 5 I only got 3 reps and they were maxes. I told him I can not do that stretching before lifting. Next time I saw him I was soaked sweating piss wet through and I had deadlift for that day at 480 x 5 (a week prior I did 475 x 5 with last rep not very slow) but at just 5 lbs more I couldn't break it off the floor. Again I told him I can not do that warmup stretching routine. Last time I saw him I told him specifically before we started I can not do that stretching and lift heavy. Well he insisted I do the usually yoga possessing routine. Then he convinced me somehow to not do my scheduled 450 x 5 but to go to 465 for a single first. 445 was my pr. Granted 465 is only 20lbs more and for 1 but why am I doing singles? Why is he insisting on stretching? Why was he giving me mobility and flexibility exercises when my squat was regularly going up.

The irony of firing a starting strength coach for giving me to much mobility flexibility and yoga...

[Steven Kalin]

I believe I’ve heard Andy Baker endorse the idea of a max single to make a set of 5 seem easier. I think you jumped the gun here a bit. I know Craig. He knows what he’s doing.

[RichWill1664]

I believe I’ve heard Andy Baker endorse the idea of a max single to make a set of 5 seem easier. I think you jumped the gun here a bit. I know Craig. He knows what he’s doing.

He's a great guy and he knows what he's doing. Agreed. But I went four times in a row and failed. I failed to be able to lift 5lbs more then I would did previously for a set of 5 reps in deadlift. I failed 435lbs for 3 reps instead of getting 5 reps, when I did 430lbs x 5 in previous session alone and the session after I did 435lbs for 5 reps alone. Then instead of doing 450lbs x 5 we did 465lbs x 1 and I failed to get 1 rep. After that on my own my heavy days have gone 450 x 5, 455 x 5, 460 x 5 and then at 465 x 3 x 2. My other day is 5 x 5 for volume at 425lbs right now. But the problem is I would tell him I can not do a long stretching routine before heavy lifting. If I am drenched in sweat, unstable and feel weak before I do a heavy lift what is the point in that? How many times should I say something? I tried 3 times saying it makes me weak I can not do this stretching routine. The fourth time I told him I said I am not doing any stretching, he convinced me to do half the stretching routine and increase the weight. Another failed session. 4 failed sessions with a coach and in 11 months on my own I've had maybe 2 or 3 other failed session with out a coach were I got less then 5 reps and that's between the four main lifts.

I even take it on the chin. Its my fault, I could not communicate effectively that the problem was the stretching. But how its not the stretching and could possible be anything else makes no sense to me.

I used to play poker semi professionally. When invited to house games I would tell the host of course I'll come if you have a good game, if I win I keep playing if I'm up when the game is over I come back and play again. But if I lose for any reason I'm not coming back, definitely I would not lose repeatedly and come back. It's not personal. Same thing here, great guy, great gym, loved it but 4 times failing I'm done. I knew the problem and I was right. Further more I knew his solution was lowering the weight! With more stretching as an answer to the problem. Insanity. He only really listened to what I thought the problem was after I quit as a client. I'm doing private lessons one on one to get the coaches attention not to have to fight him to listen to me.

If after I left I could not increase my squat anymore, then I would think I was wrong. Eventually my squat won't increase 5lbs a week. But every time it does I think more and more that I was right. Or if I'm wrong and its not the stretching. Its the same to me as if it were a poker house game. I don't care if its that I am allergic to the paint on the walls. If I am losing repeatedly why would I return? That would make no sense. I came to have my form checked so I would not hurt myself, instead I am stretching myself to weakness and a 465lb bar rolling over top of my head.