Elbows and the squat

[tate]

Rip,
I've seen a couple of online video lately (confession: they were trying to forge elite fitness), and they advocated keeping the elbows down, whereas I know you advocate elbows up. The "elbows down" people indicated it is easier to keep one's "chest up" at the bottom of a squat if one's elbows are down.

I suspect the difference lies in whether one is coaching a low bar squat (which requres elbows up to hold the bar) and the high bar squat. Since the rear delts are not used to keep the bar from sliding in a high bar squat, perhaps some people think it would be advantageous to keep the elbows down. As you've detailed in SS, I think one would lose upper back tightness with the elbows down. Admittedly, I've never been taught the high bar squat, since I learned to squat by reading your books.

I'm not asking you to throw stones at others nor defend yourself, but was just wondering if my suspicions are correct. Thanks.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I think you have it figured out. In the low-bar position, chest is up and elbows are up/shoulders are extended. The two working together keep the upper back tighter. We are not concerned with what is "easier", only with what works most effectively.

[Subsistence]

If I go elbows down on lowbar it is like I am trying to dump the weight behind me. Tried it once to fix my tendency to good morning the squat, was not a great idea.

[OCG]

If you stick your chest up and your elbows up, they're moving in opposite directions. They're both moving "up" but your chest is moving "forwards" and up and your elbows are moving "back" and up. End result is that this requires flexibility in the shoulder joint to do properly. If you can't stick both your elbows and your chest up, then you have flexibility issues.

[LudwigVan]

I don't think this should be confusing in the least for anyone actually looking at the book. p. 25 of the 3rd edition clearly illustrates what is meant by the "elbows up" cue: there's a "wrong" example, in which the upper back is loose, the bar has rolled back into the hands, and the elbows point down towards the floor; and a "right" example, in which the upper back is tight, the hands trap the bar down against the back, and the elbows are maybe 20 degrees past vertical.

However, I have observed a lot of confusion about this on the internet, presumably among people who haven't read the book. They interpret "elbows up" as "try to make your elbows point behind you," and in doing so they end up with loose, rounded upper backs and shitty squats.