No Shit Training Methods for Other Sports

[CC323]

Mark and the entire SS community,

Thanks for the parsimonious and effective book and website that have assisted me in my athletic abilities and strength gains. I have a question about improving other athletic abilities in a similarly well-programmed, methodical, empirical-but-works-in-real-life type of program. If you all have specific recommendations or just references to other resources, I would find that very helpful and generous.

Basically, I'd like to shave time off of certain run and swim distances. I can currently run a 7:00 mile, 10:15 1&1/2, and a 24:00ish 3 mile, and I don't know my swim times. Are there any methods that program running and swimming in the way SS programs barbell training? Definitely not anticipating a 5:00 mile in 2 weeks, but I've stalled with the very generic LSD runs and occasional Interval runs, and wonder if technique and/or improved programming could help.

Thanks for your time,
Chris

[Mark Rippetoe]

I am not aware of any.

[Trewarin]

Your best increases will come from both being very effective at hard-as-balls HIIT protocols and running technique.

Especially the technique.

1) forefoot striking
2) forward lean
3) hips stretched before activity to ensure the glutes do their fair-share of hip extension
4) high cadence/stroke rate
5) run quietly

Any loud foot-fall is a sign either that you're running across the bongo desert or being inefficient.

More on this when I'm not out at the farm.

[Will Morris]

Mark and the entire SS community,

Thanks for the parsimonious and effective book and website that have assisted me in my athletic abilities and strength gains. I have a question about improving other athletic abilities in a similarly well-programmed, methodical, empirical-but-works-in-real-life type of program. If you all have specific recommendations or just references to other resources, I would find that very helpful and generous.

Basically, I'd like to shave time off of certain run and swim distances. I can currently run a 7:00 mile, 10:15 1&1/2, and a 24:00ish 3 mile, and I don't know my swim times. Are there any methods that program running and swimming in the way SS programs barbell training? Definitely not anticipating a 5:00 mile in 2 weeks, but I've stalled with the very generic LSD runs and occasional Interval runs, and wonder if technique and/or improved programming could help.

Thanks for your time,
Chris

It may go against the conventional wisdom, but if you are trying to run faster, perhaps running faster will assist. If you wish to shave off time from your 2 mile, first concentrate on reducing your time on your 200m and 400m repeats. If you want to run a 6 minute mile, you need to be able to run 4 straight 90 second 400s. Now, if you are able to run 400 repeats at, say, 75-80 seconds fairly easily, a 6minute mile is nothing.

[Will Morris]

Your best increases will come from both being very effective at hard-as-balls HIIT protocols and running technique.

Especially the technique.

1) forefoot striking
2) forward lean
3) hips stretched before activity to ensure the glutes do their fair-share of hip extension
4) high cadence/stroke rate
5) run quietly

Any loud foot-fall is a sign either that you're running across the bongo desert or being inefficient.

More on this when I'm not out at the farm.

I am good with 4 of the 5, but "hips stretched before activity...."? That sounds an awful lot like the gluteal amnesia voodoo crap that has become so pervasive in ex-fizz. I respectfully cannot be on board with that point.

[hollismb]

Mark and the entire SS community,

Thanks for the parsimonious and effective book and website that have assisted me in my athletic abilities and strength gains. I have a question about improving other athletic abilities in a similarly well-programmed, methodical, empirical-but-works-in-real-life type of program. If you all have specific recommendations or just references to other resources, I would find that very helpful and generous.

Basically, I'd like to shave time off of certain run and swim distances. I can currently run a 7:00 mile, 10:15 1&1/2, and a 24:00ish 3 mile, and I don't know my swim times. Are there any methods that program running and swimming in the way SS programs barbell training? Definitely not anticipating a 5:00 mile in 2 weeks, but I've stalled with the very generic LSD runs and occasional Interval runs, and wonder if technique and/or improved programming could help.

Thanks for your time,
Chris

Daniels' Running Formula is a good read and might be what you're looking for for the running portion.

[Mac Ward]

It may go against the conventional wisdom, but if you are trying to run faster, perhaps running faster will assist. If you wish to shave off time from your 2 mile, first concentrate on reducing your time on your 200m and 400m repeats. If you want to run a 6 minute mile, you need to be able to run 4 straight 90 second 400s. Now, if you are able to run 400 repeats at, say, 75-80 seconds fairly easily, a 6minute mile is nothing.

This.

[Kjeld]

If you want to run a 6 minute mile, you need to be able to run 4 straight 90 second 400s. Now, if you are able to run 400 repeats at, say, 75-80 seconds fairly easily, a 6minute mile is nothing.

'

That sounds an awful lot like "It may intuit well that if you can pull a 250 pound deadlift 21 times coming to the lift at a heart rate of 180 beats per minute, then 500 pounds for a single at a resting heart rate is perhaps manageable."

I kid, I kid.

[Calvo]

Daniels' Running Formula is a good read and might be what you're looking for for the running portion.

Yeah, him or Lydiard. For what it's worth, my high school cross country coach took our team from having 2-3 state level runners to having 12-15 of same (D5 school, about 300 kids in the entire school, so this wasn't easy) in about four years relying heavily on this book. (As well as a slightly goofier volume called Train Hard, Win Easy about Kenyan training methods.).

'

That sounds an awful lot like "It may intuit well that if you can pull a 250 pound deadlift 21 times coming to the lift at a heart rate of 180 beats per minute, then 500 pounds for a single at a resting heart rate is perhaps manageable."

Doesn't it just, though?

[Runner]

It may go against the conventional wisdom, but if you are trying to run faster, perhaps running faster will assist. If you wish to shave off time from your 2 mile, first concentrate on reducing your time on your 200m and 400m repeats. If you want to run a 6 minute mile, you need to be able to run 4 straight 90 second 400s. Now, if you are able to run 400 repeats at, say, 75-80 seconds fairly easily, a 6minute mile is nothing.

I have used this technique to great success. I do repeats of 3min 90% on, 3 min slow pace x24 min as one of my workouts. Increases VO2 max and allows submaximal running to go on and on and on and....

Combine with hill repeats and a long distance run this is a real effective means of training for >20 mile runs.