Dan Green squats 385kg(849lbs) @110kg(242lbs) at ProRaw V in Australia

[Les Hahn]

So you think the recreational federations that host a "Worlds" where nobody is from out of the county, much less the country, is as legit as the IPF?

Carlos?????? Where are you???????????????????????

I think he means legitimate as in legal lifts. Any small fed can do that. If they are making good judging calls in line with rules, your total is legitimate. Now, it would be a different argument to talk about prestige. A 1st place win in the IPF with a larger competitor pool is more prestigious than one in a smaller fed with less competition.

If the lifts are legal, even with raw+wraps, they are legitimate.

[Carlos Daniel]

I think some context might be missing. I'm not 100% sure I want to spill the beans in such a visible forum. Might be something to discuss by e-mail.

I'll tell you this: powerlifting in Brazil and (South American perhaps) is NO MAN'S LAND. You think high squats are bad? I've seen shit you can't even think of. So I've seen some bad, bad shit. I've heard about styrofoam plates. Sanctioned meets in which people weren't required to wear a singlet and much, much worse. People that were extremely vocal about anti-doping being caught.

And fuck, I didn't like it. I didn't like it at all. So believe me when I say I don't like shitty judging more than any of you guys. Me and some other people are working very, very hard to create something we can call honest down here. So much that I think we are the first country outside of the US to have certified referees in the IPL. So, please, don't think I'm being lax. I'm just playing the "live and let live" game: the other guys can lift however and wherever they please. They leave us alone, we leave them alone. People can choose to lift in the other feds or with us, everyone is happy and no one gets hurt.

[Rherington]

If USAPL tests for the presence of testosterone, everybody fails. Update your info.

Not sure I interpreted what you said correctly. But here is what I found.

From the USAPL website

No Therapeutic Use Exemptions will be approved for functional disorders, such as low testosterone or aging. You may not compete in USA Powerlifting while using these substances. To do so constitutes a doping violation. There are powerlifting organizations and competitions which do not prohibit the use of these substances, or allow waivers. You are encouraged to compete with these organizations.

From the WADA site banned substances

Endogenous** AAS when administered exogenously:
androstenediol (androst-5-ene-3β,17β-diol); androstenedione (androst-4-ene- 3,17-dione); dihydrotestosterone (17β-hydroxy-5α-androstan-3-one); prasterone (dehydroepiandrosterone, DHEA, 3β-hydroxyandrost-5-en-17-one); testosterone;
and their metabolites and isomers, including but not limited to:

[Carlos Daniel]

Not sure I interpreted what you said correctly. But here is what I found.

From the USAPL website

No Therapeutic Use Exemptions will be approved for functional disorders, such as low testosterone or aging. You may not compete in USA Powerlifting while using these substances. To do so constitutes a doping violation. There are powerlifting organizations and competitions which do not prohibit the use of these substances, or allow waivers. You are encouraged to compete with these organizations.

From the WADA site banned substances

Endogenous** AAS when administered exogenously:
androstenediol (androst-5-ene-3β,17β-diol); androstenedione (androst-4-ene- 3,17-dione); dihydrotestosterone (17β-hydroxy-5α-androstan-3-one); prasterone (dehydroepiandrosterone, DHEA, 3β-hydroxyandrost-5-en-17-one); testosterone;
and their metabolites and isomers, including but not limited to:

Rip is being funny. What he means is that if they test for testosterone, every human being probably has some. What they test for is exogenous testosterone, most likely by means of epitestosterone/testosterone ratio.

[Bryan Dobson]

Does this really need to be spelled out? Testing is not for a banned substance but markers such as higher than" normal " t levels. Integrity issues aside this is easily avoided by someone by keeping their levels in the normal range. I am not condoning cheating but I also don't care for the ban on therapeutic use...as long as the ranges are normal I have no problem competing with someone who is on t- therapy.
The anti t therapy thing is a bit extreme...the issue is that not all countries have legal t therapy so I can see that point about it not being fair. NASA is big down there.

[meetch]

If USAPL tests for the presence of testosterone, everybody fails. Update your info.

I know they have a whereabouts form that athletes have to fill out.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Missing the point, meetch.

[DirtyRed]

Also its time the IPF introduced prize money into their meets.

Well here's your fucking problem. Actually paying out to winners is going to increase participation. It's also going to give it some credibility as a professional sport instead of a hobby for people with too much time and money on their hands.

It will also do something to poach competitors from feds that DO pay their top finishers.

[Kyle Schuant]

Money helps, but I don't think it's the main issue. As Simma pointed out in an earlier thread discussing weightlifting, archery has more participants and it has no prize money that I know of. It's simply that the official archery organisations enthusiastically promote the sport at all levels and do their best to make it accessible.

A lot of powerlifting federations, by contrast, don't do much to promote the sport, and spend most of their energy jealously guarding their turf. For example, 3 of my lifters have joined GPC, and 1 wants to join Powerlifting Australia. However, PA rules state that the person's coach must also be a member of PA, and that any member of PA will be expelled if they participate in any non-sanctioned meet. So if I join PA and coach my PA lifter, I can't coach my GPC lifters or do anything at a GPC or other federation meet other than watch. I'd be expelled even for being a spotter-loader. I have to go where most of my lifters go, so if she joins PA she'll have to be on her own on meet days.

Any group, whether social, corporate, religious, sporting or whatever, expands its membership by being inclusive rather than exclusive. Actually advertising themselves helps, too - long time since I've seen an ad in the paper or elsewhere for a barbell sport event.

[Kyle Schuant]

Interesting write-up of the meet.

As I said, I think enthusiastic promotion of the sport is the key thing. I don't like monolifts, geared lifting, drugs, the "press!" command and a stack of other things. But in the end I don't really give a shit, because let's face it, that shit is trivial, and the real issue is a lack of lifters. GPC, 308 members. PA? not more than twice that. CAPO, etc, 100 or so, tops. AWF, 720 or so (and lots of them crossfit box members who'll compete once or twice then never again). Altogether we're talking about less than 1,500 people involved in barbell sports in Australia, at most 1/4 of them women. Many record spots in various weight and age groups are just blank, they literally have never had a competitor of that weight and age. Is this because of knee wraps and walkouts and 24 hour weigh-ins? Let's be serious.

All the other stuff is nothing compared to the simple fact that there just aren't many people competing.

We need more lifters in the sport. Arguing about knee wraps and walkouts and how nostalgia ain't what it used to be doesn't help that. Rip maybe gets a free pass to whinge because he's actually done what I suggest and hugely promoted lifting, the rest of us not. Everyone whinging about the state of the sport should get their arses out onto the gym floor and teach someone to squat.