Power Clean/Squat Clean Clarifications

[Srini B]

Coach Rip,

Hi. I have a couple of questions regarding Power Clean/Squat Clean.

1) Does Hip level change (or not) during transition from end of Pull 1 until beginning of Pull 2 ?

During period of transition, that is, between end of Pull 1 (knee) to beginning of Pull 2 (jump/explosion at top of thighs), is there a change in hip level...do the knees extend/hips rise at all during transition?

My understanding:
I am thinking (not sure if correct), the knees do extend a bit, and therefore, hips do rise a bit, during transition. However, at the point of actual jump/explosion/DKB/Scoop, the hips drop a little due to knee flexion to facilitate jump, although this does not need to be thought of explicitly. Not sure if I understand this correctly.

2) Torso position during initiation of jump/explosion:

I realize that torso has to be plumb vertical during actual jump/explosion...

However, do we initiate jump/explosion just a little before torso gets plumb vertical ? This is when we think about bringing the hips in to meet (brush) the bar, right?

3) Hip Depth at bottom of jump/explosion during Pull 2:

Are there any "rules" to this?

My understanding:
Seen discussions on this around on the internet that jump/DKB gets initiated with hip level around 2-3 inches below lower than (hip level when standing) upright. Perhaps, then, actual DKB takes hips lower still by around 2-3 more inches (overall, 5-6 inches below hip level when standing upright).

Also, that this (bottom most hip level at bottom of jump/explosion) is the same as hip level during the dip for jerk. This could also perhaps, be determined by dip level used naturally, when a person does a push press.

4) One last question, related to back angle during Pull 1:

Is there no change in back angle at all from the initiation of Pull 1 through the end of Pull 1 - meaning, bar is moved using legs/hips only, during Pull 1?

My understanding:
I am assuming this is the same for deadlifts as well (that is, is there absolutely no change in back angle, until bar reaches knees and only then do the hips extend)?


Thanks very much

[Mark Rippetoe]

Have you ever seen me refer to "Pull 1" and "Pull 2" in anything I've written about these lifts? You questions indicate a different model of the lifts than we teach.

[Srini B]

Hi Coach,

Sorry about that.

Must say I am fascinated by the technical aspects of the O lifts (although, have not been able to practice them too much myself), and to read about them (from SSBBT3 and from elsewhere) is very interesting to me.

While doing so, I must have got the different models, terminologies and details mixed up.

I apologize.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I prefer to spare my typing on this board for people who are actually engaged in DOING the lifts. When this becomes more than merely theoretical for you, perhaps your perspective will have improved.

[Clay Lacey]

It's amazing who can become "Senior Members" and who still has to have posts "approved." I read and do. Any points for that?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Unfortunately, typists can become senior members. Most of us know who these people are.

[Kyle Schuant]

Perhaps you could change the user titles.
"Hardly posted"
"Types a bit"
"Types a lot"
"Never shuts up"
etc

And the "post quick reply" button should be renamed, "are you sure anyone will give a shit?"

[Srini B]

Hi Coach,

If I might be allowed one more brief attempt to clarify...

Have been following SS.com for a long time - have learned a great deal from SS forums - have also asked questions and benefitted extremely much from clarifications I got. I am very very grateful to you and to everyone at SS, for everything.

I read and also perform all lifts associated with SS...although, not able to do so as continually/methodically as I would like to, (due to work/family schedules and such).

If my questions had come out as any attempt on my part to compare SS models for PC/PS with other models, that certainly was not my intent whatsoever...I am definitely not qualified to even attempt that. I probably should have been more careful in framing my questions. Sorry... Won't happen again...

Thank you very much

[Mark Rippetoe]

I don't mind the comparison of our analysis with that of more conventional Olympic weightlifting coaches. That's not my point. It's just that I'm not going to stop and do that for you, which is what a detailed answer to your OP would require.