Bench press technique question and pullup question

[solidsnake123]

In SS:BBT you said to lay on the bench so that if you are looking straight up to the ceiling when the bar is racked, your line of sight will be on the foot side of the bar. If I do that I cannot even get the weight off of the hooks because my arm and torso angle is like \___ that. I have to go around asking people for lift-offs. Also, you said to keep your head about 1/2 inch off the bench to avoid a neck injury. The last two times I have tried to do that I end up with a crick in my neck and a feeling like I have pulled it, especially when trying to get the bar off the hooks with an arm and torso angle of \___ .

Also, I have noticed the past two bench workouts that I have either strained or done something to what feels like my rear deltoid when doing pullups. I do not warmup for back extensions or pullups on those days as I did not see any mention of warming up for them in SS:BBT. Are you supposed to warmup before doing your pullups (back extensions have already been warmed up for by doing the heavy squats)?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Then I guess you'd better try doing things differently. I have never seen anybody who had their eyes just past the bar on the down side in the position you describe. Never. Unless they were too far down. So move back up. And if you're getting a crick in your neck from holding your head up off the bench, try laying it down without pushing it into the bench too hard.

And if you're doing any exercises without a warmup and hurting yourself, then I guess that means that you'd better warm up, huh?

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

Snake,
Try doing 1 or 2 really light sets of pulldowns before doing your pull ups...seems to work for me as a good warm up.

[whatupdun]

Snake,
Try doing 1 or 2 really light sets of pulldowns before doing your pull ups...seems to work for me as a good warm up.

+1

I like the narrow "triangle" grip, because I can really feel it in my lats. IMO, this is also a good warmup for benchpresses, since the lats are called upon when you're beginning to push the bar back upwards.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Please explain the mechanics of this.

[solidsnake123]

Thank you for your reply Coach Rippetoe.

[whatupdun]

Please explain the mechanics of this.

If this question is directed toward my assertion, here's an excerpt I feel adequately explains the mechanics of how your lats are critical for the lower portion of the bench press. If not, you can simply delete my reply.

:: oh, the delights of approving the content for one's own forum :P ::

USE OF THE LATS IN BENCH PRESSING

An often-overlooked component of the bench press is the use and development of the muscles of the back and in particular the lats. Very few lifters utilize the strength of the lats in their bench press and when they are able to incorporate lat contraction into their exercises, immediate increase is always achieved. Here is how you incorporate the lats into your bench press: Take an empty bar or even a wooden rod and assume the bench press position. Lower the bar to the chest and pause. Instead of driving the weight up with the arms, contract or flare the lats in an outward direction. If you have decent lat development, you should see the bar move several inches off the chest. This takes practice to utilize the lats in this manner, but be persistent and practice over and over with an empty bar, gradually adding weight as you get used to the movement. The eventual goal is to use the lats as sort of a cushion or coiled spring when lowering the bar and then contracting them strongly on the initial drive at the same time you are pressing with the arms. DO NOT walk into the gym tomorrow and attempt this with your max poundageif you do you will fail. I have worked with athletes who have increased their maximum bench press anywhere from 20-50lbs within 2 weeks as a result of using this technique. This also requires strong well-developed lats, which are developed by chins and rowing.

from http://www.martygallagher.com/riverh.../280_0_14_0_C/

(whomever the hell Marty Gallagher is )

For more references, search something like "bench press lats" without the quotes on Google. Such a search produced ~88,000 results for me a few minutes ago.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I'd be careful about my remarks about well-known coaches with whom I was not familiar, if I were you.

That having been said, I disagree with Marty's explanation. First, it is not an explanation of the mechanics, which I requested from you, so that's your fault, not his. Second, if you'll think real hard about the origin and insertion of the lat, it is hardly possible that a muscle that pulls the humerus and the spine together can contribute in an active manner to a movement that requires that the humerus and the spine move apart. The lats don't "contract or flare in an outward direction." They adduct the humerus. If you're wearing a heavy shirt, you'll actually use the lats to help you get the bar down to the chest, and even if you're not wearing a shirt the lats will aid the upper back muscles in arching the chest up. They may even serve as a rebound cushion at the bottom of the movement if they're large enough, but this is only useful if we quit pretending there is a pause at the bottom in a meet.

But the motion described as "flaring" the lats is a contraction of the serratus anterior as they ab-duct the scapulas; it is a shrug forward, and although it shows us the lat belly when observed from the front, like a bodybuilding Lat Spread, it is not a lat contraction per se. It cannot be the lats, because when a muscle contracts it pulls the origin and insertion points together --definitely not what's happening when the bar drives up off the chest. The lats can serve to support the arch as the bar approaches the bottom -- and they are very important in this respect, like the erectors in a deadlift -- but they cannot contribute to the upward movement of the bar.

Now why would I want to delete a delightful post like this?

[whatupdun]

I'd be careful about my remarks about well-known coaches with whom I was not familiar, if I were you.

Good point, Rip -- my comment wasn't meant to disparage the quoted individual, so I apologize if I was out of line.

Your explanation seems solid and concise (as usual -- good work). Is it accurate, then, to say that the lats *help* with the bench press, but that they're not involved in the pressing motion itself?

In the bottom of the bench press, I can definitely feel my midback helping to -- it's somewhat hard to explain -- it's like my back is pulling my arms in to my sides, which helps the chest/shoulder contraction to move the bar upward.

[Mark Rippetoe]

You've got it right now.