neither book describes a complete novice program, but I need one!

[Lu36]

Hi Mark!

You are no doubt the best strength coach I know of, but unfortunately your messy writing keeps me scratching my head: after going through both your books Starting Strength and and Practical Programming for Strength Training (which I bought expensively overseas) I still cannot put together a complete novice schedule that I can use for my training without stressing guesswork. Talk about "practical" programming!

The closest thing to a complete workable routine in either book is the "typical beginner's program" at page 300-301 of SS, which is obviously insufficient.

In particular I could not find details about the reps and sets of the "ancillary exercises", such as:

-a sound explanation of why chins/pulls are to be performed at higher reps than barbell execises, apart from "tradition" (page 253 book 1), and why "failure should happens at 5 to 7 reps" when weight is added (page 163 book 2)

-the number of bodyweight chinups/pullups before adding weight:
you wrote "12-15" (page 259, book 1), "more than 15" (page 155, book 2) and "over 10" (page 169, book 2). Please pick one.

-a clear example of how to alternate weighted and unweighted chin/pulls (as mentioned at page 163 book 2): I find it impossible to alternate both chinups and pullups AND weighted with unweighted "every other workout" at the same time.
See by yourself: chin+ pulls- chin- pulls+ (doesn't work); chin- chin+ pull- pull+ (doesn't work either).

-how many reps and sets for the abdominals, and when to add weight:
the "typical beginner's program" (page 301 book 1) shows
2/14 Situps BWx20, 2/16 Situps BWx5 & 10lbs.x12, 2/19 Situps 10lbs.x13
Why BWx5 to "warm up" the abs, and only the first time?

-how many reps and sets for the back extension, and why:
you wrote "any other assistance exercises should be done after the basic program exercises, and then for no more than three sets" (page 163 book 2). It may seem that you meant 5x3, but that's clearly not the case: in the beginner's program (page 301 book 1) are shown 10x5 back extension, while for the advanced they would be 20x3 (page 219 book 2). And back extension is clearly listed as assistance exercise (page 219 book 2), while abs are not!

Can you see what I mean?

Someone can pass me a complete novice routine for a few months, please? KSC perhaps?

Thanks
Lu

[Mark Rippetoe]

Yes, you're absolutely right, the books are so disorganized as to be all but unusable, especially in the absence of the ability to exercise one's own judgement and apply a bit of common sense. Please e-mail me your mailing address and I shall refund all of your money, including shipping, you fucking idiot.

[fluxboy]

Okay Rip, you also owe me $15 for a new keyboard. I just spewed buttermilk all over mine after reading that post.

Nice to see your little bike ride around America has softened your disposition.

Best,
Flux

[XTrainer]

I'm amazed at how people get so worked up over the chin/pull up thing. 1/4 threads in this subforum has something to do with "when am I 'allowed' to add weight?"

Just do freaking do them! Do you really think it's going to make a differnce in the long run if you start adding weight at 8, 10, 12, or 15 pull ups? No!

[Polynomial]

Lu:

Trees ---------------------------------------------- Forrest
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You                                                 destination

[Mark Rippetoe]

And with your refund I will throw in a free ass-wiping, since you obviously want me to do that for you.

[Stevo]

Vicious! I've missed those flame throwers the past few weeks. This warms my black little heart.

Could part of this stem from squashing your balls riding while tooling around??

[Lu36]

Yes, you're absolutely right, the books are so disorganized as to be all but unusable, especially in the absence of the ability to exercise one's own judgement and apply a bit of common sense. Please e-mail me your mailing address and I shall refund all of your money, including shipping, you fucking idiot.

I thought you would either not post my message of respond in a civilised and useful manner. My intention was not to offend you, I seriously look forward leaving out the guesswork from all my training. I'm presently looking for a weight lifting coach in my area.

It makes me sad that you are such a bitter person, obviously you don't have love in your life.

[But I want to experience love. Can you help me, Lu? --Rip]

[Shahala]

This is fucking Sparta.

screw the keyboard mate, I need some new pants.

[Lu36]

Lu:

Trees ---------------------------------------------- Forrest
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You                                                 destination

that was cute, thanks!
But I do not let my doubts prevent me from training, though
when it's weight time I put my "105"% into it. It's in between trainings that I wonder how I should rather train the next time.

Anyone would post for me a complete novice schedule?
or send me the link inside the forum?
Also references to pages in the books are OK, I do not wish the authors to lose profits.