Ultra running & Starting Strength

[Axiom]

Hi Rip,

I compete in 72 hour trail races. This year I placed fourth at 188 miles. My goal for next year is to get more than 200 and to get a top three placing. Given my goals, should the program be modified? I just recently started lifting.

Stats:
Bodyweight: 131 pounds
Height: 5’7
Squat: 100
Deadlift: 150
Press: 50
Bench: 95

I am in my “offseason” which means running 60 miles a week. Even getting to just these small strength numbers (I could only get 6 reps in the squat with just the bar at first) has gotten rid of my joint pain.

Thank you, and I love your podcast!

[Mark Rippetoe]

I have no experience with this, sorry.

[Griffin727]

Hi Rip,

I compete in 72 hour trail races. This year I placed fourth at 188 miles. My goal for next year is to get more than 200 and to get a top three placing. Given my goals, should the program be modified? I just recently started lifting.

Stats:
Bodyweight: 131 pounds
Height: 5’7
Squat: 100
Deadlift: 150
Press: 50
Bench: 95

I am in my “offseason” which means running 60 miles a week. Even getting to just these small strength numbers (I could only get 6 reps in the squat with just the bar at first) has gotten rid of my joint pain.

Thank you, and I love your podcast!

My sister is into running for distance, but she never does more then 5 miles at a time. You are going have to cut your running down majorly. She at 160 pounds at 5,4 got up to a 235 squat and 285 deadlift doing the advanced novice phase before she tacked out and had recovery issues. I would stop running for 6 months and focus on strength and then get back to your sport/hobby. You honestly prob don't need anything past a novice phase that will benefit you in distance running. You can't fully serve two masters at the same time.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Griffin, he's not going to do that. He competes in ultra-distance. COMPETES.

[Jason Donaldson]

Griffin, he's not going to do that. He competes in ultra-distance. COMPETES.

When you're talking about competing resources (time, energy, recovery, whatever), you can at best hope to do one thing great, two things well, or three things okay.

At Axiom's level, he's great at running and staying great at it, which limits his ability to do strength training well. Griff, your 6-month plan is absolutely sound, it'll just be up to him to decide when he's willing to to take that hiatus from being a great runner to build a strength base, or else do as close to the program as he can manage, setting his expectations accordingly.

As the great Thomas Sowell has said, there are no solutions, only trade-offs.

[Griffin727]

Griffin, he's not going to do that. He competes in ultra-distance. COMPETES.

Hey I'm just saying play the long game. Doing the 6 months of strength training only would help with the hills in running and joint pain. My sisters 1 to 5 mile times got better from taking her squat from 95 to 235. Now taking her squat from 235 to 315 prob wouldn't help as much due to the law of specificity. Ik there was a chart yall put up a few months back that showed how useful strength is to a sport.

[Maybach]

The main problem with running is that the metabolic adaptations to endurance running will impair your recovery. The metabolism becomes more efficient at oxidizing nutrients, and oxidative metabolism doesn't build tissue. Your body is better at catabolism than it is at anabolism.

The good news is this generally doesn't go the other way, especially if you're not focusing on the strength training. Your aerobic metabolism won't get all that much worse, if at all, and strength will be all upside. If you take a break from running and get your squat to 600, yeah, you might have to get reconditioned a little bit.

The horror stories about novices running alongside the NLP are at their most dire when running presents a significant structural stress in addition to the metabolic stress. You probably don't have that problem.

No need to change the novice program. You'll just need to make intermediate adjustments earlier than is usually expected for your demographics. You will need to eat a LOT.

Get the Grey Book and read it, that should tell you everything you need to know about adjusting a program.

[Jdcuth]

Just a question- what is it about ultras that appeals to you? I don’t run anymore now that strength is my goal but I do understand the appeal of going for a run which used to be my exercise of choice. But why not just a few miles at a faster pace? Ultras seem highly destructive on every aspect of fitness apart from the long slow plodding involved.

[Axiom]

Thank you all for your input! I will think on all these comments

[Axiom]

Good question! For me it’s the journey. It feels like I live years worth of experiences in relatively short time.

And it also provides a goal/direction to strive towards.