Can you analyze too much?

[JohnStrangeway]

Hi All,
I'm going to throw this out there, I find this to he a very educated board.
I wrote an article about analyzing your movement patterns. The article is mostly martial arts related although I do mention lifting as I see them both as having the same goal of technical perfection.
The gist of the article is to look at what you do, break it down and find the movements you make within movements you don't notice previously so that you can improve them, thus improving the movement as a whole. A constant process of breaking down, refining, digesting then rebuilding, better, but then doing it again and again as your skill increases.

Now I'm rethinking, does lifting require as much constant, conscious refining? Do you reach a point where too much analyzing will hinder your progress and using cues like, hips back, push through the heels are all that is needed?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Some things are more complicated than others. See if this helps:

Starting Strength: Article

[Mark E. Hurling]

I'd be interested in seeing this article.

[JohnStrangeway]

Some things are more complicated than others. See if this helps:

Starting Strength: Article

Thanks Mark, this is an article I'll need to read more than once!

I'd be interested in seeing this article.

Hi Mark, I appriciate your interest.
Movements within movements | JHS Martial Arts Academy
I'm pretty new to writing, I have a few pieces on there. I only seem to write when I have a surgery.

[wk105]

push through the heels

You mean 'think about pushing the mid-foot straight down into the floor'.

[JohnStrangeway]

You mean 'think about pushing the mid-foot straight down into the floor'.

I dont, its a cue I use on the car deadlift event.

[Mark E. Hurling]

I thought it was a good article. It's the sort of discussion and analysis so often missing in MA. As you probably already know, teaching MA falls into the following categories:

*Monkey-see, monkey-do. Demonstration of the technique with little or no explanation. The student is expected to pick it up from seeing it.
*Group practice with little or no review of anything but the worst of technique with a lot of small flaws missed entirely.
*No questioning of Sensei or Sifu allowed. You listen, you hear, you do.

Which leaves huge gaps of understanding and ultimately execution by all but the most talented students who can pick up movement simply by seeing it. Some people need to read about it and some need to experience the technique being performed properly on them to "get it."

You've come to the right place. I had a dim idea of how to describe the art that I practice. But having read Starting Strength and the level of detail Rip provided, I realized I needed to get better at writing the descriptions of the techniques practiced at the dojo I am part of.

Just one thing I noticed in your article that you in fact do, because I could see it in your photos, but didn't mention in your text, was keeping the knees slightly bent.

[JohnStrangeway]

I thought it was a good article. It's the sort of discussion and analysis so often missing in MA. As you probably already know, teaching MA falls into the following categories:

*Monkey-see, monkey-do. Demonstration of the technique with little or no explanation. The student is expected to pick it up from seeing it.
*Group practice with little or no review of anything but the worst of technique with a lot of small flaws missed entirely.
*No questioning of Sensei or Sifu allowed. You listen, you hear, you do.

Which leaves huge gaps of understanding and ultimately execution by all but the most talented students who can pick up movement simply by seeing it. Some people need to read about it and some need to experience the technique being performed properly on them to "get it."

You've come to the right place. I had a dim idea of how to describe the art that I practice. But having read Starting Strength and the level of detail Rip provided, I realized I needed to get better at writing the descriptions of the techniques practiced at the dojo I am part of.

Just one thing I noticed in your article that you in fact do, because I could see it in your photos, but didn't mention in your text, was keeping the knees slightly bent.

Thank you Mark!

That is all true unfortunately. Also what aids in the decline of MA are instructors who remove techniques they don't understand, "I'm only teching the stuff that works" attitude. They don't understand that everyone is different and the style accomodates this; e.g. there are techniques that tall people can't use effectively but also techniques shorter people can't apply, or fast, slow etc etc. For a 'tall' instructor to remove techniques he can't use, he robs his shorter students of techniques that would work for them Then the cycle may continue if a shorter student of his begins teaching and decides the techniques he cant utilize should be removed.

Good point about the knees, thank you, I'm going to add that in.

John

[CJ Gotcher]

Now I'm rethinking, does lifting require as much constant, conscious refining? Do you reach a point where too much analyzing will hinder your progress and using cues like, hips back, push through the heels are all that is needed?

I feel it's our responsibility as coaches to dig deeply into the mechanics and practices of our respective sports. It's also our responsibility to investigate the moment arms, the anatomy, the silly bullshit, and distill them down to the bare minimum for our clients: concise, meaningful cues relevant to their specific deficiencies. Those simple cues are critical, but they're the end results of a long sifting process.

This also requires that we be willing to have our analyses challenged. When our clients hear one thing from us and something else from another coach, guru, or textbook, we need to be able to explain why.

[kfreeman85]

Also what aids in the decline of MA are instructors who remove techniques they don't understand, "I'm only teching the stuff that works" attitude.

Combine this with the fact that, depending on the art in question, the technique may not even represent a technique, but a theory codified in a physical framework. There are a ton of things that "didn't used to make sense" or "seemed not to be functional on any level" that I have come to realize aren't teaching "a move" but, instead, a theory of movement, a response to a situation, a pattern of thought, etc. Before someone can "throw something out" they've got to be really sure why it was there in the art in the first place. Most people never get full transmission of a martial art. The god awful amount of work required to be qualified and capable of study at this level is beyond the sacrifice threshold for most individuals who walk through the door.