Reps and joints

[Scott Mahn]

Is volume easier on the joints than intensity?

I often hear 'old timers' lamenting that lifting heavy wore down their joints. Is pretty much true of everyone who plays hard at the iron game, or is more true for those who train for strength?

I'm wondering if us master's lifters who are in this to forestall aging and death, or other good reason short of competing as a lifter, would be better served on a novice program that utilizes higher volume and lower intensity? Like in that hypertrophy range of 8-12 reps?

Thanks

[Mark Rippetoe]

What do you mean by "joints"? Ligaments, cartilage, meniscii, tendons? And my novice program does not involve "higher volume and lower intensity".

[Scott Mahn]

What do you mean by "joints"? Ligaments, cartilage, meniscii, tendons?

Don't know enough about them to say. Whichever of them might be more vulnerable at max loads, I suppose.

And my novice program does not involve "higher volume and lower intensity".

So, for example, if a middle-aged person were to keep everything in your program the same except to do 3 or 4 sets of 10 reps rather than the 5 reps you advise you'd consider it something other than a novice program, or so distant from your novice program that the two would be unrelated?

And, related or not, which program would best strengthen while preserving the persons ligaments, cartilage, meniscii and tendons?

[Mark Rippetoe]

All tissues adapt to stress by getting better at handling it, unless the stress is too intense or prolonged. This would include all joint components. And it seems that you are suggesting that the fewer the reps, the more advanced the program.

[Scott Mahn]

Coach, I'm here to pick your brain, not to suggest anything to you.

Let me take another swing at this, from the abstract to the specific.

On another message board that discusses strength training and bodybuilding a thread was started asking "Knowing What You Know Now, What Would You have Done Differently?" A good number of respondents said they wished they had started on a program like yours, with the big lifts and a linear approach. And a fair number of others said they wished they'd not worked in low rep ranges for so long as they feel it took a toll on their joints and resulted in injuries and consequently lower ranges of motion over the long haul.

Since I, as an old fart fo 48, am just beginning my training, and have few ambitions to compete in contests of pure strength, I wonder if it would be wise for someone like me to embrace the wisdom of both groups by doing a program of linear progression on the big lifts but while utilizing a higher rep scheme?

More specifically, I've been doing your SS novice program for 6-7 weeks now. (FWIW, about 4 weeks in I subbed Overhead Squats for Squats on my workout B days, and I added in horizontal pullups and rows on alternate workouts.) I hit new PRs on all lifts but the squat, which I keep resetting for form work -- but then I hit a wall.

I became very sore, fatigued for days on end, and eventually, last Sunday, I stalled on all my lifts. I think my CSN got fried from working with max weights. What I mean is that every rep felt like a max. When one does, say, reps of 10, he knows he can get at least the first few off, but on those sets of 5's I wasn't even sure I'd get the first rep of the first set off. Sometimes I was missing reps on my first set, then focusing my mind and finishing the latter sets. Only 100% physical and mental effort would get me through. With all the mental checklists on form, mustering the will to get the lifts up, and the physical demands to finish the sets, fatigue overcame me.

So I reset my weights down 10% last Sunday, then rested 4 days until my workout today. Going back to it today I felt good in that all my muscle soreness was gone, and I had good spirit for the efforts. HOWEVER, my shoulder and knees still had soreness in them, so my muscles recovered faster than my joints, and I wonder how long I can keep pressing on, in spite of soreness, before it catches up with me and I become someone who wishes he had done thing differently.

I think I'm doing lifts that will make me stronger, more powerful and more explosive, but more often than not I end up moving around like a brittle old man. I don't know enough to say, but I guess I'm someone who's either genetically stiff jointed, or, for whatever reason, my joints simply recover slower than my other parts.

So what should I do? Some thoughts I've been toying with are to add another rest day between all workouts, or only workout twice per week, or possibly work with lighter weights at higher reps as some others had wished they had.

Any thoughts on the matter are most welcome.

[Mark Rippetoe]

You are not getting recovered, and you are not doing my program. I doubt you are eating correctly, because it sounds as though you are not getting recovered, as indicated by this remark: "With all the mental checklists on form, mustering the will to get the lifts up, and the physical demands to finish the sets, fatigue overcame me."

But this comment puzzles me: "When one does, say, reps of 10, he knows he can get at least the first few off, but on those sets of 5's I wasn't even sure I'd get the first rep of the first set off. Sometimes I was missing reps on my first set, then focusing my mind and finishing the latter sets." How is it possible that you have chosen weights for your work sets that you don't know if you can complete? How would 10s of a comparable degree of difficulty be easier to finish than 5s? How do you warm up for your work sets such that you're not sure if the next sets can be done? How much weight did you increase your work sets from the previous workout?

This is quite typical of connective tissue inflammation: "Going back to it today I felt good in that all my muscle soreness was gone, and I had good spirit for the efforts. HOWEVER, my shoulder and knees still had soreness in them, so my muscles recovered faster than my joints, and I wonder how long I can keep pressing on..." and a fish oil supplement combined with enough protein and calories to get recovered is a good place to start.

I am not sure why you would use overhead squats in a novice program. You mention that you're "adding in" two assistance exercises, while at the same time indicating that you're not getting recovered. Are you doing power cleans, or are these exercises being done in lieu of cleans?

Most importantly, your misunderstanding of the effects of different numbers of reps means that you have not read this important material in BBT, pg 293-95, and in PPST pg 75-90.

So, my advice would be to do the program as written, eat more, and if necessary do the workouts every third day instead of every other day.